934. - Recho Omondi

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it 3 times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.

Hello and gone.

Back at it, baby. It's a beautiful evening here in Milan. The sun is still up. The weather is The weather's been amazing. Traveling to Europe from Los Angeles is more fucked up than I remember. And I'm starting to think I maybe never have done it before. Or maybe I've only done it once.

Shit ain't sweet, is it, brother? It feels like I'm fucking flying to the Serengeti.

That's awful.

Time-wise.

That's awful, bro. I hit Frankfurt, had a couple hours in Frankfurt. Then I got to, it was just a, it was a long day, but I arrived in Milan just in time to hit the Range Rover dinner. So everything is right, right with the world. But luckily, you know, I was— this reminds me because I saw that friend of the show Law Roach is sort of in a— he's in a little bit of a dispute with Delta because he's a 360. He's part of the Illuminati. He's a 360 member.

And also, I'm so glad that of all the guests, you know, we got for the Law Roach discourse to happen.

But so I'm— he's a million miler. He's 360.

Despite being so dusty.

He claims that he got on a Delta One. He paid for a Delta One seat that wasn't fully reclined is what I understand. Not a lay flat. That I think that could be. And no shade to Law Roach, but I think that could be user error on his part.

You're not guaranteed lay flat on a domestic flight, honey.

Well, Delta One is always a lay flat. And I think he thought first class was Delta. You know what I'm saying? I think he might have gotten confused because he's so used. He's so used to lying flat, if you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, he didn't, he didn't pay for a Delta One seat. He paid for the best seat.

Yeah, he paid for the best seat. So Law, I hope you get it figured out. Delta, obviously we side with you. You know that. You know that. I don't care how good Zendaya looks. I'm going to side with Delta every time. I don't care. I don't care one bit.

Yeah. So what do you, I mean, obviously this is sort of the, the petty type of thing that one should be too embarrassed to poke to put out into public. Like, this is something that you would contact the diamond platinum 360 million miler phone number where, you know, you call, like, they answer the phone before it even starts ringing and then you can, you know, deal with it versus, you know, on the public square where everyone can reply saying, you know, my thoughts and prayers to you and your family during this difficult time, Mr. Rowe, you know, just flaming him up. What, what— but also, let's say you and, you know, Kristen Bell and Dax are stranded in, in Haiti. They really shouldn't have done that vacation during the same week that the government was going to be overthrown by Trump. And they're, they're trying to get on the last chopper out at that point. Then maybe we're, we're doing @Delta, but are we hitting the DMs first? You know, like, what point does Chris Black get?

I would never—

public—

okay, doing this, doing the, doing the public airline thing, they could have your parents held at gunpoint, bro. I don't know.

Yeah, take I got a reputation, sweetie.

I ain't going. No, I got, I got followers, bro. I can't. I'm sorry, Mom. I'm sorry, Dad. I love y'all. I really do.

We get it, Chris. You have a whole thing.

I don't understand. I don't understand how a guy that is this, this rich, like, what, what do you think is going to happen? Like, you're already as high as you can get on the Delta run. There's nothing they can do to make it up to you. That's my issue.

They're like, oh, we'll get your $2 million now. You got a new pin.

It doesn't— it is— there's no, there's no benefit for him doing this except like to get it off his chest because I've, I've been here. I know what he's feeling. We've all been here in this moment of course of, of, you know, where you hit the wall.

You're like, you have no recourse and this is when you do things like this.

Yeah, but Law, sorry, take it back to the drawing board, big dog. This ain't— this is— go back to being a guest star on the On commercial.

Law, you're either in or you're out.

Oh, I, you know, before we— right before we got on, looks like breaking news. It looks like Zoë Kravitz has got a fucking damn boulder on that finger, Jason, according to, you know, and she's walking around London holding hands with none other than Harold Stylish. And do you think that Big Harry locked it down? Do you think he said, it's time?

I don't think so. You don't think so?

What do you think this is then? Is she playing with the paparazzi like that?

Like I was saying in the, in our conversation, in our digital convo earlier, the image that was shared is too low resolution to tell what's going on.

There's other, there's many other images to be fair. There are other images.

I will, I'm not able to, I'm trying to use my Gemini AI to enhance, but it's not working for me.

You put on your, like you put on your loop like a jeweler at looking at your screen.

I've got my, I've got my Ray-Ban Meta loop on. Hold on.

That don't look, that don't look VVS to me. I don't know.

Well, you got all the paperwork for this one, right?

Your shit look a little foggy.

You know what I'm saying? Harry, you keep the receipt on this one or what's the—

No, I think that—

So all this to say, if this ring is as large as it appears to be, it looks like it could be maybe the world's largest diamond ever given to somebody, to a beautiful, stunning actress who weighs 87 pounds on a fat day.

Well, you said—

She should be dragging that arm on the floor.

All of a sudden, those Pilates biceps work. All of a sudden, all of a sudden, she can hold up a little more than a cigarette.

This is what this training has been all about.

I think they are engaged, and I do think that that size of rock does— I know you said that might be out of character, and I said that is not out of character for any woman. There is no woman— if there are, they're liars— that would say that they don't want it.

That's just like saying, you know, there's no such thing as a dick that's too big. Dick, you hit the wall at some point with the diamond where it's like, no, it's very different. It is embarrassing to be wearing a diamond ring that big.

Not when you're famous, bro. It's different. I'm telling you it's different. And I'm happy for the couple.

And also price-wise, aren't you afraid? You know, like if that ring is as big as it looks to be, then it's what, $13 million or something? Like you just walked through.

No, no, it's not that big. That ring, it's big, but it's not as big. You're exaggerating. And I understand that's what we do here on How Long Gone.

I'm only basing it off of the photo where the ring where the rock is as large as— it's as wide as her finger, you know what I mean?

Well, yeah, but I mean, like you said, her fingers are the size of a child, so that's not really saying much. I'm just— I'm happy for the couple. I'm happy for the jeweler who's on the receiving end of Harry's black card. I think everybody wins here. Um, congratulations to them. And, uh, you know, I can't wait to see which songs, uh, Dev Hynes does on the cello at the ceremony. That's gonna be beautiful.

What's— what's Sade song?

I hope he does The Smiths. I love when he does The Smiths. I love when he does the Smiths. I also, I wanted to see, I wanted to talk to you about Big Clav has a buddy who's also in the looksmaxing, you know, canon. And he's, there's this video of him crying and he says, I take the tears and put it in my hair. It's like sea salt spray. It makes my hair softer. So he's saying that he, he cries and then puts the tears in his hair to make it softer. And I, I think that might be more insane than hitting yourself in the jaw with a hammer. Honestly, deep, deep, I think this is even there.

I mean, there's no way that that can be a real thing. Does it just seem like a fun little gag that someone's doing for the, uh, the Geese Clip Farmers?

No, because these guys aren't funny. They don't know what a gag is. That's the problem, you know what I mean? Like, they don't know.

I mean, it's not a gag, but it's more of just like What if you— they just like come up with stuff, just any old random stuff. But that would mean that he would have to, A, be able to make himself cry, which I guess if you're that sort of psychopathic, you might actually be able to do.

You could.

But the amount of product generated for the amount of beautiful hair he has—

beautiful head of hair.

It seems like he's going to have to harvest his tears for, you know, a number of hours per day just to get enough product.

I'm sure he supplements it with Bumble and Bumble. But for now, when he's in a pinch, you know, he's he's in an interview and he's talking about his parents or whatever, he's like, if I'm gonna get emotional—

well, I'm cutting it with the Salt and Stone leave-in scalp, scalp talks, scalp elixir.

It's fine, actually. No, I thought that was a very— I do think that you're right, the, the payoff is small, but it's all natural. That, you know, it's like, it's like the way you— they inject their— they take blood from your face and inject it back in your face, you know what I mean, for a facial.

And, and his tears, they're so powerful that you only need Oh, you know, it's like saffron or truffle oil. Just a drop is all we need.

Normally people would cut that actually with regular water, but because it's coming straight from the ducks, you know, he's got to keep it. He's got that raw, that good, that raw.

Yeah, I was just talking, um, we had dinner with Carolyn's parents yesterday and they said their granddaughter, Carolyn's niece, like kids nowadays, they're using coconut oil for like the diaper rash and the whole body. And now, now the whole family is rubbing coconut oil on the face. Even her dad's doing it and he's like, yeah, like, you know, a little sunspot here is kind of fading away.

But we got to stop.

I don't— I mean, I'm doing beef tallow. They're doing coconut oil. What's the next fat on the face that's going to be trending?

Goose?

I'm not—

I'm not well-versed enough in fat, honestly. Like fat. I know that. I know there's a lot of different types out there, but I can't prescribe that to our listeners.

All is olive oil and butter. Those are the only fats you keep in your home, Chris. Well, that's what I—

those are what I bathe in. What about ghee?

Do you guys enter the ghee space?

I've never entered the ghee space.

In or out of the bedroom?

I've never entered the ghee space, but it is a classic vegan thing. It feels like it should have come across my— Well, speaking of food, there's two things I wanted to bring to your attention before we talk to our guest. There's a Vox story about why millennials are feral for chicken Caesar wraps, which I think is something that I haven't had a chance to dig into yet, but I want some fucking answers. And also I sent you guys this earlier, but did you see the translucent wings? When do you think American Deli— when do you think American Deli is going to offer the translucent?

It's a good question. I mean, it harkens back to the days of Crystal Pepsi. Obviously a little bit easier to make that than a full chicken wing. Crystal clear. It's a fun experiment. You know, if I was like still 10 years old, that's the type of the field of science that I would be sort of exploring.

Do you think that the translucent wings are promo for Iceman? That's my— because it does look like ice.

There's a through line.

Yeah, it does. I think there's something there.

I think Drake, Drake, you know, OVO team should contact this, you know, hit up MIT or what, MIG. I think he was a Chinese scientist and be like, you know, how much for the 12-piece crowdy? You know, whatever it is.

I'm soundless block of ice downtown. Can you bring me a 12-piece? Just flats. I just want to try it while I'm out here. All right, we got a guest today. She's already here too. She's ready. Hold on, we're gonna give you an intro. Uh, Resha Omundi is joining us, the host of The Cutting Room Floor, fellow podcaster, um, and just all-around shit talker in a real— in the How Long Gone spirit.

We're finally going to give her a platform where she's able to speak her mind and use honesty.

Now she can speak freely because she's been really holding back for the last couple years on her— because she's on Patreon, so it's different, you know what I mean?

Yeah, and she hasn't spoken to a white straight man in years, if not months, so this is going to be refreshing.

We gave her, the only reason she talked to us, 'cause we gave her a ride. She wouldn't even have talked to us unless we gave her a ride.

Our driver would take her. Driving this red show. Now here we are 2 months later.

All right, let's, let's give her a call. Let's give her a call.

She said, what, the 7 Series? Oh, it's not the M. Oh, okay. Well, I guess I'll still take a Lyft.

Beggars can't be choosers. You know how it is.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month. And this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, You don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own, but the truth is no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris. And sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them. Because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself, and that's the most— that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp, choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over 6 million people globally are using it, and, you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh, you know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself. Maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, damn, I really am him. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterhelp.com/howlong.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast 3 times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

3 times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to. To over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's 3 times a week. And who couldn't use more news, you know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, you're fine, you know, drink more water.

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly.

That's about it.

As if I could drink more water, doctor. I, I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and make it better. But Superpower is doing something different. Superpower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Uh, their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin, mineral levels, and even environmental toxins.

Ooh.

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You remember when I told you that I emailed you years ago and your response to me was, why would I do that?

When I asked you, this is a blatant dirty lie. I thought that was hilarious. Literally, I looked at my email. I was like, did I say that? Because sometimes I surprise myself. I'm like, that doesn't sound like something I would say. And I checked it and I said, not that. It was something—

it was— but it wasn't not that.

Chris may have moved one word around, but it changed the, uh, the impact of the sentence greatly.

It did.

No, I said, I said like, what are we going to talk about? Or something like that.

Maybe how I would interpret it as, as similar to why would I do that. It felt, it felt like—

so, so all these years later, why did you agree to do this?

Well, it's more like why— what took you guys so long to like actually book me? That's what I was—

well, after, well, after you put me— I, after that response. What am I supposed to do? That's like, that's a flat out, that's a flat out passive aggressive.

Yeah, and we can, we can flip this. We'll flip this pickleball right back to you. Two of us, how many times have you asked us to be on your little podcast?

Well, I don't know if you guys would make sense for my podcast. It's a different experience, right? Here's the thing, the reason why we have to clear this up is because I get such a bad rap for people thinking that I'm nastier than I am when I'm really a delight. I'm an angel sweetie pie, like ball of joy. So like, I have to correct that because people really think that I'm a lot more like aggressive than I genuinely am.

You need to talk to your clip farmers about that. That ain't— yeah, that ain't your fault, that's the farmer.

But also being like, being the, the, you know, kind of a mean person who's talking shit and getting into mess and drama, that's how we get those Patreon dollars. Being a sweetie angel pie who agrees with everybody, that's a good way to make 17 hundo a month, right?

Am I, am I getting dragged into drama? Like, please tell me.

No, you're not. I mean, I— no, I don't think you are.

Your words, you're saying I get a bad rap for being this mean person or whatever. I'm saying that's how we get paid in this game.

So do you feel that your listeners and the world at large has misjudged your character? Would you say that? Or would you say that maybe they only see one side of you?

My listeners know because they know me, but I feel like it's more of an industry thing. I think people find me deeply intimidating.

Not me. I'll walk right up to your ass and tell you what time it is.

Yeah, straight up. That's true. And that was very cool. And I like that when people— I think that's also part of what it is. I am a straight shooter and I can do it on the fly. And when people do just come up and say, "What's up?" I respond really well to that because it's like, I got no guard, let's chat. But there are a lot of people who are quite guarded and they're very reserved and they're calculating or they're strategizing. And it's like most of anything and everything I've done has just been boom right there because it's not like— I'm not in my head that much. So I think that in and of itself can be off— not even off-putting, but can have people on guard in a way. It's a social dynamic that I notice a lot with me and others in the business. More so than like my fans.

Sure, sure. Oh, damn, fans. All right, shit. I was going to say listeners.

Followers, listeners.

In the intro, we were discussing a piece of news in the fashion world that we were hoping you could chime in on. Law Roach did a tweet to Delta Airlines. Are you familiar with this?

Not the tweet. No, tell me, fill me in.

Okay. So he tweeted yesterday at Delta, the airline. Dear Delta, I'm Delta360 and a million miler. This morning I paid for a Delta One seat from NYC to LA, and when I got on the the plane. It was not a lay-flat seat. I was very disappointed. And then the tweet kind of went viral and people are having fun with that. Is this a situation you've been in before?

No, but I support him. I support it for a number of reasons.

I stand with Law. Yeah, I'm saying to Jason, just on my knowledge of the Delta product offering, that I think Law might be a little confused about what he paid for and maybe the ins and outs of it all.

He didn't read the terms and conditions of the seat purchase.

I didn't want to put that on his jacket. I don't want to put that on his jacket.

But I have to imagine imagine that he's like traveling all the time, so I feel like he was very well versed in what he's doing. I have to assume people that are jet-setting like that, they're not getting it mistaken. I don't jet-set.

That's a good point. That's a good angle.

I don't think he's— I don't think he's doing the booking though, is what I'm trying to say. So I think, you know what I'm saying? I think he's doing the traveling.

I don't think he paid for it, but he didn't book it.

Yeah, that's two different things because I know we don't have a team. You, you're staffed up, so I know how it must be different, you know what I mean? When you— because you don't— I mean, you don't book your own shit.

I don't book.

I don't book.

I don't book. It's actually atrophied, the skill. Like, I don't even know.

Okay, so When you get on the Delta flight, you don't bother tweeting publicly to Delta. You just FaceTime your assistant and say, fix this.

I would. Yeah, I would text my assistant and be like, fix this. But Chris is cracking up.

Are you the type of person that will publicly tweet a brand that has wronged you?

Not anymore, because the block is too hot. My voice is too potent now that if I were to do something like that—

Damn, you said my— God, you said my gas is too good.

No, seriously.

So your voice is much more— Much more potent than Law Roaches.

Not necessarily. Not necessarily. No, no, no, no, no. Not necessarily more than Law's. But the question wasn't about Law. The question was, would I tweet at a brand?

Woo! Got him.

Got him.

It was more of an if this, then that. You know, he is not above it, but you're above that. So, you know, I was just trying to see how the— which pegs are going in which holes.

I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that either.

Listen, listen, back in the day, back in my, like, Twitter thumbs days, like, yeah, for sure. But I can't. I can't talk as much off the cuff the way I used to because it means shit to people in this way. That's different. I don't even say that to be like—

None of us can.

None of us can. Arrogant. Sometimes I'll say things that if another person said it in the exact same way on the exact same day at the exact same time, it wouldn't be a big deal. I'll say it and I'll be like, "What?" Would I tweet at a brand today? Probably not.

No, you can't do that.

Probably not.

I agree. You can't do that. I don't think anyone—

But you will talk about a brand on the microphone.

Yeah, that's different though.

That is oddly— I mean, even now that they— that all the podcasts are like transcripted and shit, it still feels different.

It feels different. But I feel like it's not going to feel different for long. I feel like we've been able to sort of bask in the anonymity of hundreds of hours of audio. And it's, you know, you can't just pull up a tweet and repost it and say, I think— I just think it's funny, blah, blah, blah. And I think in the very near future, people are going to be able to just pinpoint that exact point in a podcast where you said something racist or you know, cancelable, and it'll have that same power.

I think being canceled— being canceled is so corny. Like, I said, take it from someone who's, you know, been to the rodeo a few times. I just feel like, is everybody done? Like, are we done yet? Are we tired?

Are we done or are we finished?

Yeah, I keep saying, like, are we done?

This sounds like something, uh, an Alexander Wang sympathizer would say.

You see what I'm saying? Do you see what I mean, right?

So it's just like, I want you to know, hey, hey, look, you're talking to a survivor when you talk to Jason. So him making that joke is more powerful than you realize.

Oh yeah, you told me about this. Listen, I never said the man was innocent. I don't know which brilliant, brilliant people heard that clip and thought, oh, she must condone sexual violence. Yeah, that's what that—

they saw that, they saw that, you know, they saw that you donate $100,000 to his new museum.

Exactly.

They kind of, they tracked it back through tax records, so you got busted.

You know, it's like that type of— they call it like bean soup or a slop. It's like that type of like deducted reasoning that makes like— it doesn't make any sense. It just —just, it to me just feels so lazy and people call it critical thinking skills, whatever, it's just like— and I can't even entertain it, like, when stuff like that pops off I'm like, have your field day, this is going to be dead in 24 hours, like, sure, if you want to misunderstand— it's just because the alternative of what you would have to assume that I believe is so wild that I'm like, that's easier for you to understand than to even take 26 more seconds to look through the nuance. You just want to go balls to the wall and the craziest, you know, conclusion.

I mean, I think that's the— I think that's the gift and the curse of the clip culture, honestly. It's like, when it works, it works, And when it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

And also the paid tweet culture, which is why I let it go off. Like, you cut the clips, you put them out, they're going to do what they do with them. And like, listen, if there's anything that I know how to do is to make a viral clip. I say that humbly. And you're right. Like, it's so easy.

When does the humble part start?

You ain't said nothing humble in your life. Don't—

I try. I am humble. But it's hard when you're— when you're— when it gets back to the facts. You know, we admire your courage.

Yeah, I can't say that. But what is the— But what— all right, so when we're talking about clipping, what is your process? Because I assume you don't do it physically. You sit with an editor or you send timestamps. Is that how you do it?

It's like all the things. It's all the things. Now, this is an ancient garden secret, so I don't know how deep into clips we can get, because if I told everybody how I cut clips and everybody would be cutting clips like me, and then that would be a different conversation, right?

Oh, my guys in— my guys in India are doing a pretty good job. I'd love to hear what you have to say.

No, I just think there's an art to clipping. I really, really do it. I'm actually very passionate about it. I love it. You know, we see clips as like a top-of-funnel marketing asset. So like, especially if I'm driving people back to Patreon, so like that's an opportunity for someone who's maybe not a subscriber, not yet bought in, that's an opportunity for them to see, well, like, what are you talking about? What are you about? So I take it really seriously. My team knows that. And it's like, when I say seriously, I just mean diligent. Yeah, you know, we're thoughtful about what's in it and what it says and what images we want to use to support it, all that stuff.

But I feel like you're in there with the headphones on like you're fucking Jay-Z, and you say, you say something, you're like, oh, we got one, we got one, yelling at the producer.

Necessarily, no, because the team— no, because the team's good. We got one. They know, they know now, they know. They're, they're good. And they kind of— sometimes there'll be something where I'm like, oh, I can't believe you guys didn't clip that part. Like, that was good. But for the most part, they kind of know like what to clip, and, and they were there.

Sure. I mean, yeah, they were there.

So yeah, yeah. And it's, it is good because even though you're a clip master— I consider myself to be a, an editing master of How Long Gone— but second sets of ears are able to pick things up that are, are amazing moments or funny bits that we just skip over sometimes, you know? Yeah, exactly.

So how do you guys, how do you guys do your pod? You guys like prep? Did you— were you guys like, okay, what are we gonna ask Rachel? Or is it just off the top of the dome?

Hell no, we don't. We don't. Yeah, we don't prep.

I mean, I think there's a level of prep that, that we do by being plugged in all— you know what I mean? Like, I know what's going on, so therefore I'm prepped.

Because we don't do interviews, we just do convos, you know? If you don't—

look, you don't have to get ready if you stay ready. That's what they say. And by stay ready, I mean be on Twitter 7 hours a day.

I haven't turned the— I haven't hit the record button off in years. It's just always on in the both.

Yeah, I really do believe that there's like a level of preparation conversationally that is like about being out in the world and just knowing what's going on. I don't— I think if you're trying to do like a quote-unquote interview, that's a different thing.

Yeah, yeah, I get that. I like you guys. I like you guys' energy because it's, it's fun. Whenever I see you guys, it's a good time. Vibes are high.

I mean, that's the, that's the whole point. But I think that the— I think that like someone asked me today, like, how do you come up with your questions? And I was like, I don't— I mean, I don't know. I fucking— I just know. I don't— I mean, it's like I I just don't know if that's what it's about all the time with, with at least with us. For other people, I know it's different and that's fine.

Wait, so when is this going to publish? Tomorrow. Wait, so we, we have some hot topics to discuss.

Pretty much just Law Roach.

Did you see Zoë's wedding ring? What do you think? Engagement ring? You believe it's— you think that's real? Zoë who? Kravitz. She's got a big— she's got a big old rock on from Harry.

A new one? Harry Styles.

Big old boy. Jason's saying she's too weak to hold it up.

Let's see, let me look it up real quick. This is what, her third ring? Actually, I'm not mad at a girl who's getting rings like that JLo What do you do with an engagement ring?

It just sits there. No, you don't.

You collect them. If you— you collect them.

Okay, you collect them and what, and wait for a guy to come rob your house? No, you pause.

I'm, I'm typing into Google and they don't know which man I'm talking about. They're like, Channing, are you talking about the other guy?

You gotta go on Twitter, girl.

Don't talk about Channing like that.

Oh, I had to get off Twitter, Jason. That felt like 4chan to me after a while. I used to love Twitter and I had to get off.

Oh, 4chan is a dark place, but it's also where everything starts, just like Twitter, you know. I know what happened.

What was Was there a particular incident or was it just like, this is too much for me? No, you know what it is?

I wouldn't even say it's specific to Twitter. I'm kind of like, and this is such an unoriginal statement, I'm over the social media and that doesn't mean I'm getting off 'cause we have to be on, but I just, it's more that. I'm like, I don't enjoy this in the way that I used to and I think I'm contending with that. And so in some ways that's what makes Patreon nice 'cause that's where I can kind of hide away if I don't wanna be on social for 2 weeks straight, 3 weeks straight, I can still go talk to my audience. But there's something about like, ah, go with me on this. I don't know, this is a half-baked thought, so if there's people out there who are ready to critique, just save it, save it, save it, save it. Wait, wait, wait. Okay, there's something about the amount of general users who have now joined the internet that make it not fun for me. When I got on the internet, like, you know, those first times, like in middle school and stuff like that, and you're on MySpace in high school and Facebook and whatever, and MySpace was a little later for us, but sure, yeah, yeah, middle school.

Okay, Shorty said general user What do you mean by that exactly? I mean, in general, like NPCs.

Yeah, like it used to be so much more niche and like message boards and you kind of had to be like a dork to want to be online. Like, you know, it was kind of like nerd culture and creatives kind of adopted it first and people who had really niche interests. Then over the last, I don't know, like 20 years, the general average person walking the planet has gotten online and that makes it— and then they got a comment button and that just makes it not fun. Fun to me because it's just too much dumb shit. No, I think this is—

I think this is a fair— I mean, I think that it's also the political— like, I think the politics of it all has really turned it up 100%. And the algorithms. Yeah, yeah, I think that. But I think you're right. I think the, the heyday of the internet was definitely about subcultures and niches and finding your people, and it wasn't sort of a point— finger-pointing community. And like, uh, it wasn't always about that. It was about something else. Yeah.

So now I don't find it like enjoyable as much, or I feel like I can't throw caution to the wind and just be myself online, like in those early days of how I used it, it was so— maybe because I was younger too, but it was just like, I just remember feeling like it was so freeing and so fun. Yeah, definitely. It was. Now it's just like so policed and so whack and a bunch of cornballs who are like, well, actually, it's like, shut the fuck up.

Yeah. But this happens to every platform in the history of the world. And also it happens to everyone as you get older. You're like, the young people are policing everything I'm saying. They can't take a joke. It's You have to adapt or die. Wait, can we talk about— which I guess is what Patreon is.

Exactly. Can we talk about Devil Wears Prada, which premiered last night, world premiere in New York City at Geffen Hall, Lincoln Center?

You can, you can tell to us about if you break us off a little bit of that fee you got. Yeah, you can give it. Go ahead, go Venmo me 5 bands and we can talk about all you want. Well, yes or no? Yes.

Damn, I would love to hear about it.

Well, also, first of all, you, you and, and Nikki were the only two people I saw that got paid to post about it, the magazine. So congratulations on that. Oh yeah, yeah, of course.

What do you mean? This is a hustle.

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that the Devil Wears Prada family has good taste. That's all I'm saying. They actually do. I'm glad they didn't— I'm glad they didn't go after some dorks.

They could have done Jake Sheen, right?

Well, you know, because it's Disney, it's 20th Century Fox, so super corporate. So you kind of wonder, like, do they know who is— yeah, Shane, you know, a voice, or who's kind of like has that relevance or cultural whatever, whatever. And I thought they like did a great job. I thought the activations were cool. It was super like again, still corporate, very like money, lots of sponsors. But I don't know, as someone who's like here on behalf of the fashion community on your pod, I remember vividly when this movie came out. And so it is kind of like nerd level, but like 20 years later, first of all, those 20 years went by so quickly, but also too, it's like such a quintessential film that captured an industry, one, at a time that will never exist again, the way that they captured it back in 2005. And also too, like, you know, there's those kind of like cult films that capture an industry like Glengarry Glen Ross, or like, I don't know, like Wall Street with Michael Douglas. Like, you have this— hold on, hold on, you're comparing Devil Wears Prada to Wall Street?

Cocaine's for closers.

I am, because it's an industry-focused film.

Don't let these Letterboxd nerds come— oh, they're gonna hear this. You're fucked now. Yeah, Valentino's for closers. I hope they don't find me.

But no, it was a great— it was great. And then the way that they did this, uh, sequel was— listen, it's like a fun, you know, borderline family film. Like, it's not a deep film, but the way that they talk about, like, the things that we see happening every day, essentially, magazine is like under siege because there's digital— the world of digital has taken them under. Print is not making any money. They're beholden to their advertisers. So the relationship of like Miranda Priestly as this kind of like omnipresent, omnipowerful being has been cut down a few blocks because she's now beholden to the advertisers to keep the— to keep the lights on.

Who are some of the advertisers that are— are they fictional brands or is it real? Are they— they speak directly?

Oh no, they made a magazine as part of their promo.

This is a real Runway magazine. Is that the September issue of Runway magazine?

Yeah. They made a real magazine and they have real advertisers in here. They have this phenomenal Coke ad. So the advertisers were Coca-Cola, Dior. You see Dior's on the first page.

Okay, all right, fair enough.

That has to do with like the plot because in the movie Emily, who was kind of like the antagonist to Anne Hathaway's character in the first one, she now works at Dior. So she's the HBIC at Dior.

She moved on.

Yeah, so they have to bend the knee, they have to kowtow to her because she's the advertiser that keeps their lights on. So she's like, bitch, like I do.

That is a realistic plotline.

Honestly, it is real. So you kind of see Andy or Anne Hathaway has left the magazine. She's back after all these years and she feels like she's in the Upside Down. She's like, wait, Miranda's bending down to this bitch? What the fuck is going on?

Because how is— how does Anne— how does Anne look in the movie, though? She looked good, right? They all look great.

Yeah. Yeah. They've all taken really good care of themselves over the last 20 years. And I just— I don't know. For those— anybody— I don't know if your audience gives a fuck about this.

Yeah. All these— all these people, everybody's going to go see this movie whether it's good or bad. No one cares. It's like a nostalgia. It's so good. All right, it's so great. So what did you wear to the premiere? Did you meet anyone? Did you— did anybody come up to you?

Oh yeah, everybody was there. Everybody and their mom was there, and it was so fun. Um, I was pretty chill. I was almost not gonna go, which is blasphemous, but I was almost not gonna go because I was just thinking like glam red carpet, and I was like, oh, I don't have time. I didn't do— I didn't get ready in that way. I didn't prepare. And then I like came out of it, stopped overthinking it, and I was like, this is not about the carpet. This is about you going to see a movie that you've loved for 20 years, have watched on repeat a million times. Like, put on on a matching set, get out the door.

That part you put on, you put on the Totem matching set and walked out.

I put on, uh, this actually, this designer named Kwame who I love, he's from Ghana based in LA. But no, I wore like a kind of oversized like pantsuit situation. It was fab and it was very chill and relaxed. And I'm really glad I didn't do it up because like sometimes you'll walk out the door and you'll be at the actual function, you're like, damn, thank God I didn't wear heels tonight because I'm so not in the mood.

That's why I always dress down, baby. Jeans are appropriate for every situation.

Yeah, so it's one of those. But everybody was there, everybody was there. I know that's so subjective, but like like fashion people.

What was, was, um, Devil Wears Prada 2 better or worse than Sex and the City 2?

Damn, that's a good question.

If you have to think about it, then that, that's bad because Sex and the City 2 is sort of known as one of the worst films ever created. I, I have a soft spot.

What happened in the second one? I don't remember what happened.

That's where the girls travel to Abu Dhabi, uh, for a lunch.

This is better, this is better, this is better, this is better, this is better. I was thinking of Sex and the City the movie, the first one. No, this is better.

Okay, okay. But it's really fun.

Sex and the City 2 gets a bad rap.

I think it's pretty money. I think people take it too seriously.

Like, it's also very visually appealing.

I love the Middle East personally. I haven't been offered any money by those guys, but I would take it if they offered it, just to be clear.

Yeah, same.

I know you— yeah, I know you're down for some dirty money. I know you're down.

Where do you get this impression? Give me an example.

Because I just know that you're a real one and you're willing, you know.

Yeah, you told us about Dubai chocolate in like 2016. Like, you were very early on that.

These are lies. Um, I, I like to consider myself pragmatic, you know.

Same. How often do you go back to Africa? Do you go back?

Dang, I haven't been back in a second, but growing up, I went all the time. The last time I went was during the pandemic, so I'd say like 2021, late 2020. I had a friend—

I was with a friend last night at this dinner in Milan, and she goes every year, and she was telling me how I need to go and that I would really like it and that it's turned up.

Well, I just want— I just— I just— well, it depends on what it's, you know, it's a continent, so there's a— it depends.

No, no, I, I know, I know, I know, I'm—

I know that it's letting you 'Cause these white men, I get shook about these white men.

I don't know what they know. Well, I know, I know that it's a continent. Damn, relax. I know that there's 7 continents.

Chris has been to Lamu. Okay, go easy on him.

Oh, okay. So that's Kenya.

So I have not been to Kenya. We're talking about, we're talking about Lagos. We're talking about Lagos.

Okay, so Lagos. So I'm from Kenya, and so that, it's just, I only say this because people have asked me this a lot growing up, like, okay, Africa, Africa. And I kind of feel ignorant in a lot of ways because I only know the country where my parents are from. I really don't know about these other 50-some other countries that are there. So all I know is like this one little East African country on the coast, and I love it, and it's beautiful. And Lamu, Nairobi, all these places are stunning. But sometimes when I meet other Africans or whatever, and they're from Ghana, they're from Lagos, they're from Senegal, I'm as ignorant as the next person because I'm like, I don't know their food, their language, their customs. So I also want to explore the continent. I feel very much like small town kid when it comes to that continent.

It's like when I take Jason down to the South, you know, he's discovering things that he just didn't grow up with. You know, it's new.

Even though Canada is so close, I don't know what they're up to. It's totally different.

It's totally different, but tell me, tell me about dating African men though, because you said you're, you're loyal to the soil. So what's the, what's the, what's the, what is the, what are the nuances?

You like a little coffee in your coffee?

Because you said, are we going there? Are we really going there?

Well, you said you did not fuck with white boys, so I just wanted to be clear. I never said that.

Did I say that? You also said he has to be an athlete too, which is weird.

Pause. Okay, audience, Audience, I know you guys don't know me. You have no loyalty to me.

These are the nicest people. That's not true. We have a lot of crossover.

We have a lot of crossover.

Okay, so audience, some of you may know me, but listen, I just want to say that we're Fashion's Only Fashion Show.

It's just us and Lauren Sherman and you.

Chris and Jason are referring to a car ride we took from in Paris. I needed a ride. They were right about that. We were on the outskirts of Paris. We need to get back to the city center, and in this car ride, I thought We were in a cone of silence. I'm finding out right now in real time that was not a cone of silence, that everything was fair game.

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No, not everything. Not everything. I thought this was a reasonable question because the nuances— honestly, let's get into it.

Let's get into it. We know that you love honesty, warts and all. I do. I actually do.

Honestly, I think the nuances of dating in different cultures, I think we're probably pretty ignorant to that. Jason. I know, no kidding. Except, I mean, Jason's not because he's familiar with Asian cultures, but I, I'm saying I do feel like there are different nuances that we don't— we aren't familiar with that you could enlighten us on.

So many flavors.

I'll put it this way, I think like everyone has a different, uh, way of dating and like what they're looking for. For me, I think being in a relationship, or at least— no, I've been in a lot of like, you know, less favorable, less healthy relationships before in my life, but now where I'm at, you want it to feel like home, you know? Like I want to feel like I don't have to explain myself, you know, you You know what I'm about. You understand.

Like Lena Dunham and Jack Antonoff. Just cozy. What's understood doesn't have to be explained.

Yeah, yeah.

That makes total sense. That's a super awesome point.

And the only reason why I make that distinction is because we're children of immigrants. Me and my partner, we're children of immigrants. We're both Africans. So for people who are American, I mean, I'm American too, I guess. I was born and raised here. But when you have your parents talking, acting, speaking, cooking a very specific way, you don't feel as connected to the Black American experience other than the fact that we are all Black. But there's a lot of really subtle nuances that happen within those communities. And I say this with the utmost respect to the Black American community, because having grown up here, you want to assimilate to that more than anything, because there's the people that look like you, even though there are even more nuances that kind of create some distinctions. So it's just like tricky sometimes when people are like, where are you from? I can usually tell by who's asking it kind of what they mean. Like if it's like an old African Uber driver and he's like, ah, where are you from? I'll be like, oh, he means like, where are my parents from? Like, for real, for real, where are you from?

Means where in Kenya, like which town in Kenya are you from?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like maybe what country. But if like a Brentwood white mom is like, where are you from? I'm like, bitch, what do you mean? The fuck you mean?

I'm from here. Because you live— you lived in— you grew up in a lot of bad places in America. Bad meaning flyover. Oh, that's mean.

But yeah, yeah, I grew up in— I grew up in straight up middle America, straight up. And I kind of like like, now I think I'm more grateful for it, which is crazy to say because it's a psychology of a person that I understand. And we don't get a lot of those people being here on the coast. And, you know, the coastal elite, as they call it— New York, LA, Miami, whatever, London, Paris— all these places we hang out. But I know these people like to their bones.

Like, this is how I feel about the South. I agree. I think it's like a totally— I think it's like real people.

Like, real people.

Like, yeah, but she's from a real flyover state, and you're grateful every time you fly over that old state, right? Multiple.

Well, I'll say this. Okay, let me back up. Let me back up.

For those You don't talk about Ohio like that. We get it out the mud.

I was born in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Great— oh, great American city. Classic American.

I thought it was nowhere, Oklahoma, but go ahead.

Nowhere, nowhere, nowhere is right outside of Tulsa. Okay. Honestly, that's amazing. That feels like a Dennis Hopper movie. That's unbelievable, doesn't it?

It's crazy. It's very Paris, Texas. Then I moved to Wichita, Kansas. Then I moved to Dodge City, Kansas. Then I moved to Lansing, Michigan. And then I moved to what I usually claim, which is Champaign, Illinois, because I moved there for like high school.

Like, so you still haven't even seen a mountain yet?

No, flatlands, the plains. I'm from the plains.

But why do you think— why do you think your parents were— why were they— what were— what was the reasoning for these cities? Like, because it is a certain thing. Obviously they're, they're all in the same general area. Great schools. I don't know.

I really don't know. I've asked my dad that. I swear to God, they spun a globe and threw a pin down. Like, I don't think that they, like, were— I don't know. I mean, I know my dad was going to school. It was also crazy, like, having immigrant parents too, because it's like, they pulled up to this joint having never been here here, having not really knowing the language that well. Like, it's crazy because could any of us do that if we had to leave our country today? I don't know. These people were a different breed.

Hell no. Hell no. We are built different.

We are pussies. Ask anyone why they moved to Oklahoma, they're not going to have an answer whether or not they're coming from Africa or like Chicago. They're like, honestly, I don't fucking know, bro.

I don't know. I got some land. It was a good deal, truly.

So yeah, I don't know why they were there, but, uh, my dad, like, growing up, he did have just like, I think it's a generational thing, people this time, but he did love like the idea of a cowboy and John Wayne movies and country music. I think for him as an African, that was kind of like what was the American dream. So I remember him thinking that was like the coolest thing ever, and there being a lot of old westerns in our house and him watching that kind of stuff. And he had cowboy boots and like had a pipe and all this shit.

I was about to ask, does your dad get his little swag on? You have the boots on and the jeans?

Yeah, and like the '90s, I remember, like, you look old photos, like jeans tucked into cowboy boot and an African accent and a cowboy hat.

That's fly. Who's, uh, who's on his mood board nowadays?

I don't know.

What's the look now? His moves were always like—

he always liked to dapper. It was always like a Sidney Poitier type guy. Yeah, it was always— that was like his icon. That was his like Brad Pitt, I think.

I'm Kenyan Brad Pitt. That's great. That'll work on anyone.

Yeah, that'll definitely work in Tulsa.

What did he—

what did he do for a living?

He was a doctor.

What kind of doctor? ER, emergency room trauma. Okay, so he— so you're saying he moved and then started as an adult like schooling basically for that?

No, no, no. His dad was a doctor. Doctor. So it was in the blood. But, uh, no, he came here. So this is funny, my dad was actually like studying English, then he had these 3 kids and he said, hold on, I gotta make— I gotta make this money because like, what the fuck? And, uh, then he decided to become a doctor. So he's decided— I think I might get these numbers wrong, Dad, if you listen to this, don't come at me— but, uh, I think he like started at like 33, 34, from scratch. From scratch, bro. Yeah. And then he finished in his 40s and then practiced for 30 years.

That's actually crazy.

Yeah. And we didn't want for anything, you know, put me through school, bought me a car, the whole thing. And so when he talks to us, he'll always say to us, like, if you're ever unhappy with your career or you want to change things, he's always like, you're so much younger than you think you are. You're so much younger than you think you are. Like, this life is longer than you think. So, like, you know, at times when, like, you know, my sister had, like, a change in career path, and he used to always tell, like, go back to school, go back to school. Like, you have time, you have time. Because he I didn't really get a hold of his situation until he was like in his mid-30s. And I remember him like being in residency when I was like younger and then getting done with that and then getting a job. But he practiced for a full 30 years of his life.

So yeah, that's a whole—

that's a whole ass career. And you're sort of following in your father's footsteps in his scrubs. You in that same age, you know, early mid-30s. We pivot to, you know, he became a doctor. You got on Patreon. It's the same kind of vibe, you know, similar. Exactly. I'm going to start my new life as a creator.

Exactly. I do. I do kind of have that idealistic belief of like, it's never too late. And I— maybe it's because I got it from him, but it's like, it's never too late. If you want to switch up, you want to do something different, don't sit in misery. Get up, piss or get off the pot. Like, change your life if you're not happy. I do believe that.

Unfortunately, all the things that I want to change my life to do are physical, you know, and that, that unfortunately the body keeps the score, you know what I'm saying?

But it's never too late.

You never know. It's never too late to stop being so fat.

Chris, do you think I could be a— do you think I could be a chiropractor? Real talk. Do you think I could do it? Do you think I could go through the schooling? And you think I could do what? Hell yeah.

Her, her father who went through 7 years of medical school, do you think I could pass the 7 days of chiropractic school?

No, chiropractor's like 2 or 3 years.

Hell yeah. Hell yeah, you could. Hell yeah, that's easy. That's light work. That's a quick sentence.

I need to get— I need to call your dad and get a pep talk. I, I— because it's every day I'm like, you know, I see all those memes, men used to go to war, we need plumbers and shit. I'm like, yeah, real. That's real.

We really do. Yeah, but you know what's also tripped though. I don't know if they— I don't know if anybody's ready for this. There's like this, um, there's like, you know how there's like this movement about like decentering men, you know? I see a lot of the girlies on here that like, even in their pursuit of decentering men, they're still just talking about men all the time. Like, men used to go to war, men do— don't you hate how men do this? It's like, I thought you were just— we're decentering these people. What is going on?

Well, we rock, we rock. It's hard, it's hard. I mean, you know how it is.

Keep our gender out your mouth if you don't want us to be so centered, is what you're saying.

I just feel like there's a yin and a yang to the same thing. There's like the There's the girls who are obsessed with the guys, and then there's the girls who think they don't fuck with the guys, but they're still talking about them all the time. And it's like, I don't know. And I love— let me shut up. Let me just stop right there.

No, no, this is in the words of Mariah Carey, "Why you so obsessed with me?" You know what I mean?

It kind of gives that. It kind of gives that. I'm like, I just don't think about men like that on a daily basis, like at all, really. So I don't understand the fixation one way or the other.

Well, I think the fixation, it's like it's in our DNA, you know? Right, you know, the, the decentering of men. We ain't shit. You know, we just, you know, scratch our nuts and play video games all day while you women go to your jobs and Pilates and stuff like that. But also on a DNA level, like you need us for reproduction. So like we're still on your minds. You know what I mean? Like that toxic, you know, like that toxic— Somebody's got to pay rent too.

Don't forget about that.

Exactly. You think that Spectrum Wi-Fi is free, huh?

That Volvo, that ain't cheap. That's $800 a month.

Chris, if you're serious about being a chiropractor, I just want to circle the block real quick and say you should. It's cool.

It's a passion that's developed from, um, reels. But I do think it's a— I, yeah, I think because I think there's a lot of personal trainers, you know, but I think that my body always hurts and the idea of being able to fix people's bodies that hurt and make it fun. Well, I mean, what more working. You come to, you come to Chris's chiropractic, you come to my chiropractor studio, we're listening to good shit. Like, music is good. Yeah, furniture, furniture is good. The cracks still hit the same, but it's a better environment. Smells better.

We haven't even got to the water program yet.

Yeah, you know, yeah, the water's $20 a cup. You got a baddie working the front desk. This ain't your mama's little chiropractor studio. It's never too late.

It's never too late.

It's never too late. That, that honestly, that's a very inspiring story.

That's okay. Well, on the, on the subject Or that same energy of pivoting to another career. It's never too late, blah, blah, blah. What if that career that you're pivoting to, your true calling, your true love, is a financial step down? That's tough. How does that change things for you? That's a really good question. How much do you love the game of what you want to pursue late in life? You know, easy for your dad. I guess I'll just be a doctor, you know, high-paying job typically. But going from a creative director to a chiropractor could definitely be a financial step down, especially in the early—

Not the way I do it, big bro. Not the way I do it. My, uh-uh. No, but I mean, there's sacrifice.

Like, I think everything has to do with your relationship with— to sacrifice. And I mean, not seriously. I know this is like a lighthearted podcast and not to get all deep, but for a second, it's important because I think a lot of times we talk about how we want stuff, but we don't want that thing that comes with it to get it. So like, sacrifice is inevitable if you want anything. And my dad had a lot of sacrifices. He was a janitor by night, like in a country where he didn't know anybody. My my mom and him split up during that time. My mom was a stay-at-home mom with these 3 kids. I was the— I was an accident. I came way after my older siblings. And, um, she, you know, had a lot of addiction issues. My dad raised us, so it was just him by himself with 3 girls because they split up and she gave her rights away as a mother. So my dad had full rights of these 3 girls by himself in this country.

He doesn't know anybody. Not hashtag girl dad.

No, he's a girl dad on steroids, like for real.

And then on top of all that, he's like, you know what, I'll throw in 7 years of medical school. I'm over here like, damn, I need a dog sitter for Coachella.

I mean, but no, but he was— but he was expecting her to— but he was expecting her to hold down the fort. He's like, hold on, let me go get this degree real quick. And then she was spinning out. It was very Revolutionary Road. She was crashing out. And so he was like, all right, well, these kids aren't safe, so let me go get them. And now I still have to go to work while I got these 3 kids. So it's like, it's not easy. And you have responsibilities as a man, as a parent, as a whoever. So I don't know I feel like the Obamas need to license this movie. This is a great story. I've always thought—

who's going to play your dad in the film?

Will Smith? No, no, I mean, sorry, not you. What about—

I mean, Denzel's getting a little old.

I want to say Denzel. I want to say Denzel because in spirit, but it's, it's got to be somebody darker skinned.

Okay, so I don't know, Jonathan Majors, that's fine.

We can bring him back. Oh, hell no. I don't know, come back to me on that.

Maybe like a darker skinned Savion Glover would be an ideal candidate, perhaps.

It would be Sidney Poitier, but he's—

Poitier. Yeah. Yeah. RIP to the GOAT.

What is your mom? Is your mom better? Did your mom figure it out or no?

My mom passed away last year, which, you know, is sad, but I'm not— we didn't have a relationship, so I kind of heard about her passing through the grapevine.

Oh, wow. It was like that. Like you heard about it from other people. It was like that. How did your dad take it?

I mean, I don't know. He's not a man of many emotions, but he texted me and said, RIP to your mom. And I was like, RIP. It was just kind of a weird what WhatsApp. Like, we were just cutting because, you know, I don't know her. I don't— at that point I had spent, you know, I lived— I grew up on my own. Not on my own, but you know me, I took— it was handled. It was handled. So when it— when it— when there were like moments where she was trying to reconnect, I, I chose not to. I was like, I don't really need this relationship. I feel like I'm good. And like, I wish you well, but like, I'm not trying to like rekindle.

Especially at that age, if you're like 15 or whatever, you're just like, what the fuck is this?

Yeah, I was, I was straight and I, I really I did feel like full and, you know, fulfilled in that way.

So I wasn't trying to— Shout out to your dad for making all that happen. Yeah.

So, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of sacrifice that comes with that. I'm super grateful. And like I said, we didn't want for anything. He held it down and went to good schools and had summer camps and all the things. So, I mean, sure, he did what he had to do.

Do you, do you feel, do you feel a pressure to succeed based on what your dad has gone through?

Have you met an African? Yes, I do. I absolutely do.

Jason's like, actually, no, this is my first one. So nice to meet you. I love y'all. Love what y'all do over there.

No, no, no, that's a non-negotiable. That's a non-negotiable. That's like, yeah, my dad's logic was, I'll handle all this other stuff. You better get your— the way you pay rent in this house is you have to get good grades. Like, that was not even a conversation. You, you're going to be successful at some point. Your dad's—

your dad's the only thing you did to piss your dad off. He had to cancel a subscription to the Man Repeller, but otherwise he's all— he was— he's on board with your whole shit.

No, I mean, I was He was pissed when I went to art school. He showed up at my art school graduation. He's like, you need to graduate from something that requires some brains. Like, what are we doing here?

All this for art?

Yeah. He was not amused by art, by a B. Okay.

I guess maybe a better question would be, did you, like, did he have to remind you all the time, hold it over your head, have lectures to you? Like, I came to this country with nothing and I worked my way up. Or was that just, it was an unspoken thing that we all knew that we had to like keep I don't want to kill it, you know, just out of respect for what my parents went through.

You know, I definitely got a fair share of lectures.

Did he hold it over your head, I should say?

Well, this is about to get deep.

Yo, #immigrantparents, you want to open the book?

A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. No, I mean, I'm the youngest. So like, there's a lot of stuff that my sisters got that you just catch by osmosis, just being around. They got lectured a lot. They're the oldest, so the first ones out the womb. So like, everything that I heard when my older sister was getting a 3-hour lecture in the other room for, you know, coming home late after curfew and I'm 10. I don't need that lecture. I got it.

You're on the Tamagotchi being like, all right, bet, I'm good.

Like, you know what I mean? So you kind of learn what not to do by just watching.

All right, so I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot, and no shade to your sisters, but who's the most successful?

Youngest in charge.

Youngest. Are you the youngest? Are you the youngest in charge? I am, but purely from trauma, for sure.

Okay, but at what cost?

Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm sparing you all the gory details, but like, I come from a very broken family. I'm not close with my sisters, and And my audience knows that. My dad and I have a strained relationship at the moment, which I really hope to heal soon. My mother, who I didn't really grow up with or know that well, other than through stories of people who did know her, namely his sisters who remember her from being young women in Nairobi, I kind of, and I have strained relationship with my sisters. So it's not like a perfect story by any means.

family, you know?

I don't know, like, I, I just— more what I think about more now is just, like, how grateful I am to my dad now that, you know, when you become older, you're like, damn, okay, I appreciate it. It's just more appreciation now for everything that he did. Well, I think that level of—

I think that— but I think that level of appreciation will lead you guys back to each other, probably. Yeah, you know what I mean? Because that's just, like, maturity. Yeah. Unless he's just a dick now, you know what I mean? Because sometimes when you get older, that happens.

I mean, he's grumpy for sure, but I think he's also just in a lot of pain and things that he hasn't really processed. He's from a different generation.

side.

Yeah, he's not— he didn't really have a woman to like kind of quell his, uh, outbursts and things like that. So like, you know, I feel for him.

I thought women— I thought women created the outbursts. You're saying they can help when you do? I don't know.

He didn't have a counterpart to who he was, you know what I mean? So like, I, I feel for him. I used to judge him a lot more, and now I'm kind of like, damn, I didn't live through that. And honestly, there wasn't a thing I asked for that I didn't get, so who am I to judge? Like, he held it down. He did what back in his day was what a man was supposed to do, and a lot of other things were lacking, but in his mind and he's like, I paid the bills, you're in private school, I bought you a car, you have this.

And now, and now men have to hashtag Paul Smith pink wall on their stories to get paid.

Exactly. He's like, and now you want to know about my emotions?

He's like, well, I live too much for this, big dog. Like, I'm gonna just, I'm gonna keep this shit bottled up.

You give these bitches an inch, they'll take a mile.

You know, he's just from a different time. But you know, we love him. Shout out to Papa Omondi. Shout out.

Where does he, where does he live now.

What's his at?

Uh, I think he's a Rolling Stone. He's, he's retired, so he's between like, you know, Kenya, and he has a place here, and he can bopping around.

Yeah, he's Ibiza this week, opening week. Yeah, probably smart to do that. Okay, let's, let's switch it up, uh, get a little lighter in here. Um, you worked at Barney's back in the day. My wife also did. Did you ever steal? Hell yeah.

60th Madison, men's third. That was a moment. Did I ever steal from Barney's? No, never. Why would I do that?

I believe her. I believe— I believe her. I believe her.

It's just sitting right there.

You're— you're— you sort of give narc in a lot of ways.

Oh yeah. Did you ever tell on those who were stealing?

You would tell on somebody that you saw steal. Like, you would definitely be like, yo, that guy put a fucking shirt in his bag. Like, he put a Band of Outsiders button-down in his tote and he didn't pay.

I don't think I would. I don't think— well, I didn't steal, but I don't— I don't even think I saw anybody steal. It wasn't that kind of program back then.

Okay, what about, uh, what about like the partying social aspect of you and all your co-workers coworkers on the floor. You know, that was the heyday wherever, you know, maybe do a little, do it.

I didn't have that kind of—

have a little something. I didn't have that kind of— smoke a little something on the lunch.

No, I didn't have that kind of relationships with my coworkers because back then— some head in the dressing room, nothing. No, back then the people that worked there were like career retail associates. They like had families and like they'd been there for 10 years.

Bitch, I make $180,000 a year. You can make bread selling shoes to women.

Yeah, people made a lot of money.

I was like a youngin'. Men selling shoes to women at a department store. That could have been my life. I made a couple different decisions. I probably— I'd be gay and I would have $200 a year and I'd live in Atlanta and that would be just fine.

Like, I believe the Kia would be clean and detailed every weekend. I believe every time I walk into—

I walk into Bergdorf, there's 20 guys in there waiting to pounce, you know what I mean? And you see women are— it— shoe— women's shoe section at department stores, one of the most special. It's unbelievable what's going on in there. It is the amount of money being made. It's the only department department that's busy. It's the only one that's ever been— except now, like, apothecary, like perfume and cologne is very busy. But really, the shoes is where it goes down.

Yeah. Bergdorf's. Bergdorf's is the only real shoe salon we have left, to be honest. And it really breaks my heart because I'm a firm believer in, like, the shoe salon and that whole experience. And yeah, it is a dying— it's a dying art. It's a dying third space. And the men used to run that joint.

They really did. No, I'm joking. It's mostly straight guys.

Honestly, who loves feet more than a straight guy, right?

That's a good point.

He'll do it for free.

How often are you paying retail? You like— you don't mind paying retail, do you? Christmas shoes?

For whatever, anything. Yeah, because you're not afraid to cop.

I see the Cartier, I see the diamonds.

Listen, it depends. We see it, we see it. I know you— yeah, every once in a while, everyone—

unless that's one of your engagement rings that you're collecting.

You know that we do— I know we say, I know you see it, we sing that all the time on this show. That's very funny. We do that all the time. That's really funny. You just Meanie money.

Is that, is that jock?

Yeah, yeah. Um, every once in a while, every once in a while. I don't all the time. It depends, it depends, it depends. If there's something that like came out that season that's like a must-have, like I definitely was part of the Chanel crew.

I bought what I needed to buy. You're part of the problem. You're part of the problem. What did we get?

Chanel. I bought what I needed to buy.

Yeah, you know, but not all the time.

Like you killed two guys in Vietnam. Did what I had to do out there. Had to get the blazer as well as the flap. Amen. What did you—

yeah, what What did you cop? What did we—

just two pairs of shoes. Two pairs of shoes. No bag. Oh, no bag. I think the bags look cheap. Fair enough.

All right, fair enough.

I don't like the bags, but I did buy— I bought two pairs and it was, it was chaotic. I'm sure y'all heard about it. It was definitely—

you were in Paris?

Yeah. Okay. Okay. If it's something like that where it's like you see it off the runway, you're like, when that hits stores, I'm buying. Yes. But most of the time, no. I'm a fairly big salesperson, like sales rack girl. I don't— listen, I've been in the game too long to really be paying things full price. Like, I know how to finesse the game. So for me, it almost feels silly to buy things full price, I have to really love it and really be like abandoning my reason and be like, fuck it, I just want this thing.

You know what, I understand that, but sometimes there's something— I mean, it's very hard these days because everybody's an idiot, but walking into a store and being like, you know what, I like that shirt, I'm just going to buy— the ease of that is, is, is so powerful. Like, I was talking to someone last night at dinner, she was like, I tried to go to the Miu Miu store to get a shirt I wanted and there were 3 people in the store and they made me wait out outside. And this is like an adult woman that clearly is going to buy something, you know what I mean? This isn't like— this is a woman who's got bread, she looks good, you know she's copping. And she was like, I just— I was like stunned. And the girl was like, sorry, that's the rules. And it's like, but that's not logical.

Sorry, there's an old Chinese guy who's gonna FaceTime his friend and he's gonna buy 11 bags, so you're gonna wait outside, lady.

I just don't— the idea of being able to walk into a store and buy what you want is so novel at this point that it's almost worth the money to me versus trying to figure out how to get it for less.

You like a— you like a transaction where finances are the only things being transacted, not favors or whatever, you know?

No, I get that. That's why I said sometimes I'll just be like, swipe it, I don't care. Like, I just want to get it. But I don't do that— like, that's not my regular lifestyle. Like, I don't— you know what I mean? I do still love a deal. And I— and also because when it comes to like luxury and all this stuff, the quality is going down and the prices are getting higher. And I also used to work in product development. Like, I'm a designer before I'm a podcaster. So you You can't fool me, do you know what I mean? It's like, and that's, that's also what makes it hard to shop because it's like I kind of know too much, you know what I mean? When you're like, damn, why is this have a hanging facing? Why is there like a baby hem on this? Like, what, what is this, Zara? But it'll be like Celine or something, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's hard for me to spend it, not because I don't like— even if I had it, even when I have it, it's hard to spend it because it's like, I know y'all are getting over on me and I'm pissed.

And, and, and they get over— like 99% And people, it doesn't matter. They don't care that the stitching on this Row shirt is suboptimal. I don't give a fuck. I don't even know what that is.

They don't know.

They don't care. The only thing that you can do is just buy vintage when it was made to the standards of craftsmanship that you require.

I will say the Row does still have like great leather. Their quality of leather is still excellent. Like there are some people who are still kind of holding on to their standards, but for like Miu Miu, Miu Miu to me is merch. I'm sorry. Like that feels like a merch brand.

No, it is merch.

You know what I mean? Buying that. I'm not wearing a Henley that says Miu Miu on the left hand. Like, no, I'm not doing that for $7.95, $12. No, sorry.

I— look, as my— I, I love to wear— I went— we went to an unnamed vintage store in the Dimes Square region of Manhattan with Alex and I, and she— the, the woman working there was like very hot, very cool, so hungover and annoyed, like to the point, to the point where it was like really funny. And I was like, see, this is what it's all about. Like, I want a mean, like, stoned, hungover chick to not even look up from her phone. When— that is, that is what I'd rather than someone following me around with an iPad because they think I'm gonna steal something. Both ways are bad, but one I prefer much more.

But what about friendly?

Friendly is tough because sometimes they want to talk, you know? I don't want to go into— I don't— when I go into a Buck Mason store, I don't want the guy to be like, which is your favorite Buck Mason store? You know what I mean? Like, bro, I'm just trying to see how much this your t-shirt cost compared to how much mine costs. Like, leave me alone.

Yeah, I'm just looking, I'm just looking, I'm just looking. I'm just—

there's, there's an— there— I mean, as a person who worked retail, my— maybe my favorite job, I, I think there is a fine line to be like, you know, cool and not all over you. But that to me is a classic sort of— that's a very men's, like, skate shop streetwear. Like, Supreme went too far, but the middle ground definitely exists now in a way where you can say what's up and be cool and not be standoffish. Yeah, yeah.

Before it'd be like, what are you doing in here? Are you gonna actually buy something? Are you just a looky-loo? And now it's like, what are you doing in here? Why are you inside of a brick-and-mortar store? What are you after? You know, like, what's going— like, because it's so rare to have people just like walk into a store and look at—

try to go to CVS and get paper towels. You can't, you can't do that. You can't get that. It's crazy.

It's like when people knock on your door when you're a kid and you just go and open the door, and now somebody knocks on your door and you're like, oh my God, what is it? What happened? Yeah, you know, like everyone is just afraid of every entering.

Where's my gun? Etc.

I know it's an art, the retail retail thing is an art, and I miss retail so much. Like, I don't like shopping online. It makes me sad. It doesn't feel like— I want to know what's— I don't know if I'm a 6 or a 4 or an 8 because I don't know how your brand is going to size it. Can I try it on somewhere? Damn, like, I can't try it on anywhere. You're just guessing. And then if I do want to guess, I have to buy 2 and front that cost to have it shipped, and then I have to pay the shipping or the duties. And so I'm basically paying to try stuff on.

This is crazy. I like that flex. You got to Duties. She ain't getting that, you know what I'm saying? She ain't getting there.

I gotta buy an extra small, a small, and a medium and see what— because, you know, from garment to garment it varies wildly even in the same brand.

Open the stores, open the schools, open the stores.

I mean, I, I want to just come try it on.

But from a business standpoint, I would be like, yeah, you, you can order 3 of the shirts and figure it out because I'm saving $18 million. I know, you know, a week by not having brick and mortar.

Brick and mortar.

I know, but it's just painful. Like, uh, and there's new brands I want to try all the time and it's just Russian roulette.

No idea what I'm gonna I mean, I don't think that that— I've never sent anything back in my life. Like, I can't do it. Like, it either fits well enough to wear or I'm going to give it to somebody.

This is a male perspective. Wow.

No, other people, we've had other people on the podcast say that as well. Just like, when's the last time you returned something? And people are like, I don't know, like 7 years. I just— it doesn't fit. I just give it away or, you know, sell it, exchange it, put it in the garbage, whatever. Well, because they're buying—

they're buying Banana Republic. They're not spending how I'm spending. If you were spending what I was spending, you would need it back. And I'm not making a point, I'm not trying to make it seem like I'm balling out. I'm not balling out like that.

Bananas had a great year, don't come for them like that.

Okay, today I bought a Dries skirt, right? Yeah, the Cult 100 party is like next week and I wanted to have this fab skirt, so I bought this Dries Van Noten skirt. And I don't know, I think I know what size I am in Dries, but I don't know, whatever. It's gonna be here in a couple days. This bitch is $1,000. If it doesn't fit, it's going back.

No, of course, I'm not, I'm not stupid. I'm just saying that like there's a certain— I, I think it's mostly for me with vintage, like if it's XL and it comes and it doesn't fit me right, I'm gonna give it to my homie who's a little smaller than me, you know what I mean? Because I'm not gonna— it's a vintage t-shirt that whatever, it's not—

okay, okay, we're talking vintage.

Yeah, I'm not gonna— if I buy— yeah, I'm not gonna— but I'm also not gonna order like a $3,000 suit online and try— I'm never gonna—

I'm not— he knows that he's not gonna take the 4 hours out of his day to sell it and ship it and print the label and get a box and walk it over.

I'm often just buying biggest size they got is the reality. It's often, yeah, like it's sort of like, well, if this don't fit, nothing is, you know, what am I supposed to do?

Yeah, okay, that makes sense, that makes sense.

But wow, not— no, that— well, you're— but in theory you could take it to the Dries store in SoHo and exchange it. Or you're buying it from a third party?

I'm buying it from driesvannoten.com and they won't take it at the store.

Wow, why didn't you just go to the store?

Because I'm busy.

They're like, you have to return this on Revolve.

I know, you can't go to the store, you can't go to SoHo on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. Wow, must be nice.

No, but it's actually so funny because I just goes against exactly what I just said. I'm like, I'm gonna try it on, and it's like, bitch, get up off the chair and go to the store. And I'm like, well, no, I'm just browsing online, perusing. So actually, that's so—

Queen of contradictions.

That's a, that's a great, that's a great store. I really like that store. It's really cool.

Yeah. And now I'm scared to even say that about this skirt. Take that out. See, people are gonna be like, this bitch is spending money.

No, that's— I was thinking about my Cult 100 outfit as well, so I know where you're coming from. Who knows what I'm gonna buy?

Skirt, just know that.

Who knows?

God, I guess I get scared about talking about spending money online because I'm not like allowed to.

I feel like— do you get scared about talking about which parties you get invited to? Because I didn't get invited to the Kult 100 this year. You didn't have to—

you didn't have to interview Somber for the magazine either, Jason. So, you know, you win some, you lose some.

All right, you know, but I like what they're doing with Kult. I'm proud of her. I'm proud of what they got going on.

I love her. I think she's the coolest. That, that's my— I, I love talking to her. I think she's so funny.

I think it is— does this person have a name, you guys? Let's shout them out.

Sarah Harrelson, who's the founder and editor-in-chief of of Cultured Mag.

She really figured out something for sure.

Yeah, she definitely figured out something. So yeah, I'm excited to go. But no, I'm not. I'm not scared to talk about parties. I am scared to talk about spending money. I get shook. I get a little like timid.

I don't think this audience would judge you for spending that money.

Yeah, our podcast is for people who are okay with buying a nice thing with the money that they worked hard for.

Podcast is also free, so they can't say shit about how we spend our money. Okay. When they're paying your ass, they got something to say.

You're a little bit more more beholden.

Well, okay, so that's why Taylor Swift will never be talking about how much money she's got because she was like, I just got to make it seem like I was just a regular chick.

That's only if you're afraid of what people will say. Just stop being afraid and the problem goes away like that.

Damn.

But I think there's something about like, this might be too deep for the few minutes we have left, but I feel like there's something about like, one, I think it's women in general, but two, I definitely think it's Black women where I think they like expect you to be like broke forever. Like they don't want you to transcend any kind of like level.

Hold on, why did your camera just zoom in when you said Black woman? That feels like a trick.

Wow. I don't know.

I don't know.

She has that feature on the Meta glasses. That was dramatic. It was. I don't know. So I know what you mean. We want you to be our person that represents us. But then as soon as you level up and succeed to a point where you have sort of moved up to a new echelon, you've left us behind, even if you haven't done anything except work hard and succeed.

Exactly. So that's why I still get spooked even saying anything. And I remember one time, and I did it one time and I'll never make that make that mistake again. Because I remember I did this like event, my fans were— I know the word fan is so like weird and kind of gross. But we— do we have a better word?

We call them customers. But I don't like that word either. No, some people call them listeners or viewers.

Patrons. I've talked about it with my audience before where I've been like, you guys, what are we going to call this? Because fans feels like patronizing. It feels coincidentally condescending. I don't really like that.

I don't know what I— I think listeners is— or in your case, I guess it's watchers.

I usually say audience, but whatever. I was talking to my audience and at this, at this live event, and they were like, oh, we want to know what you're wearing, want to know what you're shopping, like, tell us more about like your personal style, stuff like that. Because I'd never really made that a part of my content. I was like, I'm okay, like, I don't think that's like what I want you guys to focus on. And not even because I'm like splurging, it's just kind of like I feel like it's distracting. So anyway, one day I'm on TikTok. I love TikTok, but I can't be on there as much anymore, to the point I made earlier about how social media is not as much fun. But as an app, as a platform, I love TikTok. I love the culture of TikTok. I think it's so funny. It's like America's Funniest Home Videos. 24/7, so I love it. Anyway, so I was on TikTok and I was like, you know what, my audience said they wanted to know this about me, so like, yeah, I'll talk about this. I had bought this Loewe bag, is Loewe Madrid bag. I've been like eyeing it for a while. I thought it was fab. It was overpriced. It's very overpriced, actually. Loewe, I want to talk to you. I'll call you later.

I think their prices are just perfect. Go ahead.

But the bag, but the bag is $6,000, right? And the only reason why I bought this is because I— the Steve Madden episode had gone so viral on every platform known to mankind that I had, I had changed.

Just Steve bought the bag. Yeah, Steve bought the bag.

Yeah, so I had changed.

It wasn't Birkin money, but you know, we'll get the little, you know, $6,000 Loewe. It's all good. Thank you, thank you.

It was kind of like, okay, this is like literally like a TikTok check just showed up in the PayPal account, and it was like— and I don't really check that, you know, like that. Like, so I was like, oh, okay, cute, I'm gonna go buy myself this bag.

And okay, so you're saying I bought this bitch just clip money? That ain't even the Patreon money?

Yeah, like that was just like extra money. So then I buy it, and then people are dragging because I made a TikTok about it. And I was like, because I was complaining to the wife, I'm like, you guys, this is— this wasn't for what you're spending. That's what I mean by luxury going up, quality going down. I was like, for what you guys are spending on this, maybe this is me tweeting at a brand, maybe this is that, this is it. But I made a, you know, video about it, and then people are dragging me for spending the money on the bag. So then I'm like, so this is why I'm not going to tell you guys anything, because do you see— do you see how the one time— and they don't know it's like clip money, they don't know it's like TikTok, you know, change or whatever. So they think I'm like, oh, she's balling out of control, she's spending money. I'm like, see, this is why. So now we can't have anything nice, and I'm never going to tell you anything again about what I bought or like have a shop my, because I don't want you guys to know. And for some reason I feel like I would get it worse than most.

Well, maybe, maybe one day come on over to the other side, go to settings on your Patreon page and click cancel account, and then come over onto this side where—

but that's the thing, it's never the Patreon people, it's always the audience that are out wide running their fucking mouth. It's never your really your core people.

And that's why that actually—

that does matter. So I'm like, why am I out here in the fucking sewage talking to y'all? Like, when I could just go talk to my computer?

We're in the sewage 3 times a week. Check us out, howlonggone.com is the website. Is all I know, girl. Yeah, that's— we got— we get it out the sewage. Thank you for joining us. It was a pleasure. This was so fun. You're the best. This was so fun.

Thank you guys. Cutting Room Floor available on Patreon only. Only on I'll see you next week.

Fashion's Only Fashion Show. See you guys. Bye.

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