937. - Paul W. Downs

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it 3 times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Uh, Super Tuesday, them jeans, what's Gucci?

Yeah, sorry I came on a little bit late. It's shipping and receiving day here at, uh, KFO Industries got some shoots coming up. So I got, I got DHL, I got WorldNet, I got UPS.

When are you gonna nut up and tell her to do her job, or is that not really an option?

Uh, we do her job together, Chris. And no, I mean, the reason why I'm doing this is because she is on set today. So normally she's receiving all of these things, but today, you know, she's on set and I'm, I'm doing a little receiving. So sometimes, you know I turn the on-air sign here on at How Long Gone and then ding dong, you know what I mean?

Ding dong, ding fucking ding dong.

And these motherfuckers, we need signatures, photos, last 4 of the social on some of these garments, you know.

What do you need? You got, you got ID on you, sir? We just need to check it. Just give us one second.

But yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Still riding high off of our last episode when we were talking about, you know, the ballroom of it all. I know we have a few minutes on the intro, so we'll— we can save most of it for our guests. But I was saying, like, maybe a theory is Trump really does just, like, ball so much. And I've been reading more on it. There's more so, like, an underground bunker underneath the ballroom with, like, AI drone control missiles or whatever. But there was a quote— they interviewed him after the shooting, and he— and Trump said, I see so many tuxedos and beautiful dresses. It was a little different of an evening than we thought, but we're going to do it again. I still think he really does love a beautiful, elegant ball.

I don't think he knows what elegant means based on what I've seen. I think he, I think he does like what you were talking about.

Palm Beach elegant.

I think, yeah, PB elegant is a different vibe.

I think PB Elegant Industries, bitch.

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna disagree with you. I think there's some, there's definitely some truth to that. I think that the, the reasoning is probably flawed somehow if we get into it, as far as like why he actually likes it. It's not going to be like, because the chicks look hot in dresses and I look good in a tuxedo, you know what I mean? It's going to be something a little more sinister.

I wanted to be— no, I wanted to be like a deep childhood trauma thing. Yeah, when he was a kid and, you know, he would have to go to these balls all the time, and the ball is the only time where Mommy and Daddy aren't hitting me, or whatever, you know, whatever it is. So that's why he loved really believes that ballrooms will, will make the world heal again.

I think there could— it's— I mean, his father hates him, so his mom probably hates him too. So there could be something where his dad was at the ball, all the, you know, who knows, fundraising events.

And then also, uh, a callback to the Scientology speedrunning. Um, a friend, a friend of the show, Asim, uh, old DJ friend of mine, he, he mentioned that now all these groups of teens are trying to break into the Church of Scientology this is the perfect sort of vehicle for Tom Cruise to bring back one more Mission: Impossible. He has to defend HQ against all these Edgars in Yoshi fuzzy costumes.

Like, I honestly don't even know how to respond to that. I can't talk about furry stuff, you know what I mean? Like Yoshis, like that kind of stuff. I just, I get lost a little bit, you know what I mean? I don't know how, cause I don't know how to feel about it because I want people to be able to express themselves however they want. Okay, but also you're a disgusting freak, you know what I mean? So it's a little bit of a— it's tough for me personally.

What's the age cutoff though? What's the furry age cutoff? Because every once in a while, you know, you're hanging out, oh, you know, my kid identifies as a hedgehog this week, we just kind of go along with it, versus like my kid is a hedgehog full life, you know what I mean?

Like, I think it's probably— it feels like, I don't know, 15. I, I feel like it's—

I feel like every state had a furry age of consent.

They should be worried more about that than some shit they worried about. You think I give a fuck about a trans athlete? Get these furries off the fucking streets, bro. I don't care who's swimming. Who gives a fuck? They got— they got it all fucked up. They got us fucked up.

Do the Furlympics. I'll be tuning into that shit. I'll, I'll get Peacock Plus for that shit.

How much— how much we got to pay for the Furlympics?

I was reading something maybe a month ago, and the discourse was that You know, people are sleeping on furries, but a lot of them are like quite wealthy and really live these sort of baller lifestyles. They rent out these elaborate, like, White Lotus resort mansions and they take over the whole shit.

I think we— that's the problem. We forget. I definitely agree. I think that rich people are the only ones that can afford to act that stupid. Like, if you own a fucking very successful, you know, shipping company in Wisconsin and you got millions of dollars and you're a little freak, then you can do, you know, who cares? Like, that's, you know, there's not— you got nothing else to live for.

It's one of those things. You meet him at the dinner party and you're like, wow, that's a really interesting— you were so boring before. And now I found out that you're a furry. That makes you really interesting. I also don't have any further questions. I have no real desire to explore that very interesting theme that defines you.

I don't want to share. I don't want to share this butter with you at all. Just so, just so we're clear, I don't know where those hands have been.

I got some hair in my Split pea. Is that fur? Goddamn, I'm hypoallergenic. Don't worry, don't worry.

I got fur in my burrata. I heard, I heard, um, I heard Matt Bellany talking about being at the thing. It was so funny. He was talking about being at the Correspondents' Dinner and he was like, yeah, you know, I was there with my kid and then, you know, I went back to the hotel and the, the nerdy guy from Bloomberg was like, oh, were you— was the kid— he's like, nah, he's fine, whatever. He just completely was like, nah, whatever, we explained it to him. But he kept calling it a burrata salad, which I don't— I like, obviously I'm not an expert here, but I've never heard— is that a phrase? Because I know what burrata is, I know what a salad is. A burrata salad sounds like burrata sitting on top of some unnecessary greens, or am I mistaken? Is there a burrata—

no, I don't think you're mistaken, Chris. I think a burrata is, is an ingredient in a salad.

Got it.

But to call it a burrata salad, I think what, what they just mean, it's probably some version of like a caprese salad.

Sure.

But it has the burrata instead of the mozzarella, which is just a ball of mozzarella fresh that's been injected, like my retta, with just some simple heavy whipping cream, some Italian cream, so that shit gets all gushy on the inside, like a sexy Red song.

I was just like, I don't think that's correct. Matt's not a foodie, you know what I mean? He's too busy talking about the Paramount takeover or whatever, but I was—

He's got one eye, he's got one headphone in, and he's got AM radio for the Angels game.

That's a real talk though. He's, he's only half podcasting because he's on mlb.com checking the, checking the boxes.

Yeah, Matt, he's over, he's at the bar. He's like, you get no Michelob Ultras at all? Okay, what kind of fucking dinner is this?

You're gonna make me burrata with no Michelob Ultra? This is fucking bullshit. I can't do both now. I like a pairing, you know.

That's cash, bro. This place is cash.

I like it.

I like it.

I haven't heard cash in a while. I gotta say, we gotta bring that back. That's good. This place is fucking cash. That's some cash, bro.

I agree, I agree. So, um, what's going on? Yeah, I was— one cooking thing, all that burrata got me thinking. I'm always predicting what's the next food trend. We have all these mayonnaises and sauces. We got truffle, the truffle sauces, the Molly Baz mayonnaises and things. I'm thinking gravy is going to be the next sauce. We're going to realize that gravy is actually very good for you.

Nobody, nobody wants that, bro. Gravy is gravy. Gravy. And maybe I'm, maybe I'm mistaken, this is my own trauma. It's a protein sauce, but it's, it feels, it feels too fat boy to make a comeback right now, even though I know that it's necessarily not. Pouring a heavy brown sauce on top of your, your food feels fat boy. It's spiritually fat. It's spiritually fat no matter what the truth is.

I agree, but I think there's enough people out there who want that spiritually fatty kick of, of an unctuous gravy.

Do not say, do not say unctuous gravy, goddamn it. It sounded like, boy, boy, come on, bro. What the fuck? That sounds like, that sounds like a guy who opened for MF Doom, bro. You can't be talking about unctuous gravy like that.

They, they did like the, the Pacific Northwest with Primus in '97.

No, it was a short run. It was like Seattle.

No, but it can be, you can, we, you can, you can make gravy. Oh, I know, you know, you can get some like Erewhon bone broth rich with minerals and collagen for all of our female listeners right there who have removed all of the fat from their face. Get it back in there. And it has all that flavor of the protein. You just add in a little cornstarch, just like a fucking— a Gatorade's bump's worth of cornstarch. It thickens up, not too much. And cornstarch is basically—

Yeah, sure.

Half a teaspoon is not going to— it has like 10 calories. Wow, gluten-free.

It's a freebie.

Okay, well, so, you know, watch the space. I'm gonna be innovating. Maybe I'll make a gravy video soon, but we need to take gravy back.

I don't, I don't know if it's a sauce that we're sleeping on. I would say maybe— wait, I, I know that you have your predictions, but I would say gravy as we move into the warmer months is even less likely.

Timing's not perfect.

Timing's not great. I'm not saying— maybe you should— maybe you should have held this one until North Face season.

But, but also I love a challenge.

Sure.

It's like summer gravy, right?

Exactly. It's like when you go to the Middle East and it's 150 degrees and they want you to drink hot tea because it cools you. You know, I'm sure it's true. I'm sure it's true, but I don't really, I don't know if I personally believe that. You know what I mean?

I'm sure it's true. After the beach volleyball sesh, we're going to go, no fish tacos, guys.

Exactly.

No chips and guac. We're going to cool down with a nice bison gravy.

Fuck. Also, I mean, could a gravy in a Stanley, could that replace sort of the bone broth of today? You know what I mean? That's a question. All right. We got a guest today. These, these, these bubble cysts can't leave us alone. Paul, Paul W. Downs is joining us. You know him from Hacks. He's one of the greats, one of our favorites, one of our favorite shows here on How Long Gone. But he also went to Duke University, which I want to hear his, his, if he got any Southern flavor.

Such a fucking Blue Devil now.

If he picked up any Southern flavor down there. Or not. It feels like if he has, he's shaken it all off completely.

I know he was a swimmer when he was younger. I hope he made the Duke squad.

I think it was more for improv, but, you know, swimming is— swimming is improv in itself.

If you got into Duke full improv, right? Yeah.

God, imagine if colleges started giving fucking improv scholarships. What a nightmare. Oh, God. All right, let's give— let's give— let's give Paul a call.

Yeah.

And my improv team is going to get fucking smoked in that conference, bro. You know who we're going We're going up against—

fuck, we got the Oregon Ducks next week, and you know, they're, they're no—

of course, Michigan.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris. And sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them, because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself. And that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over 6 million people globally are using it. And, you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh, you know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, damn, I really am him. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is better. H-E-L-P.com/howlong.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast 3 times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

3 times a week. And I, I have a feeling, just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, uh, stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcast. You can watch on YouTube. It's 3 times a week. And, and who couldn't use more news, you know, especially especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it, give it a listen. Give it a listen. You share a laptop with your, with your chick?

No. You know what happened? I had a big game. I had a lot of adrenaline surging because there was a big game this morning. And by that I mean there was a, um, there was an online auction that I've been dedicated to. So Lucia set up the pod scenario for me very kindly. Okay.

Okay. Did the auction, did the auction and the podcast episode work out timing-wise or did we have to pull out?

No, you know, um, the, the final lot that I was interested in just went, so it's okay, we're done.

I don't, I don't— before we— I don't want to know anything about it. Scale of 1 to 10, how gay is this item that was being auctioned?

Oh, great question. I think, uh, you know, I think, um, I'm gonna give it a 4.

Okay.

10 is the gayest, 1 is the least gay, because it was a—

it's a, it's a lot, so we have several items to choose from for this scale. Is that what you're doing?

No, no, no, no, it's a, it's a single item, the one that at least the last lot, but it's an item attributed to Pablo Picasso, who I think was maybe the least gay, even though one could argue that his work—

well, I think when you fuck that many chicks, you almost are gay. Oh, it turns into, it turns into like you've hit the end.

Pablo, infamous stickman, but also on the other hand, art itself kind of gay. So, you know, they kind of even things out, right?

Art itself is culture. Isn't culture gay? So there you go. You're absolutely right. And you're right, you're right, Chris. He thinks he talks too much. It's like, chill out.

Oh wow, you fucked all these chicks.

Okay, you only need one, right?

That's right.

Yeah, that's right.

You only need one.

And that's why I've only had sex with one woman.

So what did you— so was it a ceramic?

It wasn't ceramic. It was a ceramic. Great guess. It was a ceramic. It was a Picasso plate. There was— there were several ceramics. And I got to tell you something, I don't want to— I should gatekeep, but they are climbing Okay. The ceramics are—

they are—

you know, the value is going up.

You should gatekeep Pablo Picasso's artwork.

Ceramics specifically. No, ceramics specifically.

Cat might be out of the bag.

The ceramics are—

Okay. So do you have some already or is this your first toe in the water?

Unfortunately, I do have an affliction. I do have some.

Okay. So you're spending this money. Okay. You're spending money. I like to see this.

But it is, as you said, it is accessible.

This is the last season, bro. You better chill out now. You don't know what's next.

A friend of mine said, you know, it's the last season. You should really like I don't really wear watches. I don't really have a watch. He was like, you got to invest in a watch. It's like, celebrate the season. And I was like, I might invest in a plate.

Okay.

Like, we need a new dish in the guest bath. And I think I'm leaning that way.

That's the thing. It's great in a powder room. It's great in a powder room.

I would agree with you. I think a watch is a predictable way for a man to spend money. I think a Picasso plate is a nice surprise for everybody.

Just imagine HBO Go logo on the Rolex right there for the whole cast and crew. Not bad.

Okay, get the—

get one of the old logos.

For the cast and crew. Wow, you are generous. That's— wow, that's for everybody.

I mean, a lot of Emmys, a lot of Emmys.

He's talking like he's a football player and he's buying fucking— he's buying Hummers for his whole defensive line. It's not really—

maybe stick to the C-suite. Stick to the C-suite then when we're doling them out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That is— okay, so are you an auction guy for other stuff too, or is it particularly art and, and, uh, collectibles and antiques?

I am an auction— I mean, I'll even look at a a car on an auction. Not that I've ever gone there. I haven't committed to a car, but I, I, my parents are a little bit auction junkies and I've inherited the really the vice.

What are they, what are they copying? You name it.

Or they have, they have things, furniture, usually, usually, um, like primitive, uh, colonial American furniture is their thing.

Okay. Are they American Pickers?

They are. Honestly, they are pickers. I, I would not, I, I mean, it would be rare.

You're a son of a picker man.

I'm a son of a picker, man.

You wouldn't say that. You wouldn't say that to your dad's face, but you're saying it on the podcast.

I would. He would probably say I'm a picker.

Oh, he would. He'd be proud.

Picker. If you've got something of value that's been left out in a suburban neighborhood in New Jersey, we're stopping to look at it. We're stopping to take out the measuring tape.

Were you going to— were you going to sales like Saturday mornings? Like the— yeah, like an estate sale.

So funny. So my, my wife is like, we can take our son. We have a toddler. To this auction because there was an auction in downtown LA. Um, Jason, maybe you know it, Billings. There was an auction at Billings.

Mhm.

Mhm. So sure, I was like, I can tell you that we probably shouldn't because I remember being brought to these and like being so bored out of my mind.

It sucks.

Yeah, for a kid, for a kid, it's like, I'll tell you what, Lucia, we probably shouldn't.

We probably shouldn't. We probably shouldn't.

And also, don't bring a kid downtown, you know what I mean?

Okay, there you go.

Jury duty, maybe.

I mean, unless, unless you're trying to trade him for something, you know what I mean? Because then it could be I don't know what, you know.

Don't explore the new D line on the Metro Rail with Lil Dounce.

Lil Dounce.

Okay, so I'm painting the, the picture's being painted. You know, it's the '90s, New Jersey. Yeah. You and the parents walk me through the donut and coffee story on those pickin' missions. Well, I feel like you're a donut junkie.

You feel like I'm a donut junkie? So funny. Do you know I kind of am? Is it? I'm like, have you done your research? I'm not a donut junkie. I'm a Glow Nut junkie.

Okay.

Do you guys know Glow Nut?

So the Glow Nut, like the healthy alternative.

Glow Nut, the one for women?

The donut for women, like Chris said.

Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. I feel as though donuts are not gendered. I do not think they're gender specific. I will say it is an ombre pink package. So there is something.

You could have just said ombre. Didn't have to say the pink part.

Yeah.

Ombre, right. You don't even need to do that.

Okay. Well, I was just wondering if the Glow Nut obsession was sort of like I grew up eating, you know, maple bars my whole life, and then I had to quit when I moved to Hollywood. Now, thankfully, I'm able to scratch the itch with my Glo. But before, you were not really caring about a donut.

Not really. I mean, I would have an old-fashioned, you know, there would be like some, like, um, what do you call it, like the cinnamon sugary kind of donuts. I like those. I always like those. I, I like things that could have been, that could have existed 400 years ago. I, I do like desserts that like grandmas like. Okay, typically.

So much like your parents, you enjoy primitive art. I believe food is an art.

That's right, that's right. I'm a history I'm a country boy.

So what are some primitive desserts?

Yeah, yeah, I don't know what this is.

Just eating a berry off of a tree?

No, we're talking like plum pudding, you know, with hard sauce. Oh God, that sounds like punishment.

Plum pudding?

Yeah, but you won't—

but are you saying you would, if you had a, let's say, a chocolate peanut butter pie in front of you and a plum pudding in front of you, you're reaching for the plum 9 out of 10 times?

You know, I think I am. I know, I know, guys.

That's cool.

No, no, I'm glad that you know yourself and you recognize your interests.

I do know myself, I do. But you're right, I am now on Glow Notes because I, you know, The truth is that I was addicted to a drink from Cinnabon for many, many, many years called the Mocha Latta Chill. The Mocha Latta Chill is like 1,200 calories of like Ghirardelli chocolate and caffeine. And I had it like in truly like elementary school. I used to get that.

Sure.

It was—

I'm sorry.

Can you say the name? Can you say the name one more time? Cause there's 3 words.

Mocha Latta Chill. One word. M-O-C-H-A-L-A-T-T-A, not latte, latte. The mocha latte.

Because it's not a latte technically. It's just, it's just exactly.

The mocha latte.

There's a lot of mocha in there.

Okay. Which comes with like a huge amount of whipped cream. And I, and they like sprinkle some of the mocha latte mix onto the whipped cream. You know, I was asking for a ton of that.

Psycho.

Yeah. It was, it was cracked for children.

So they, they have like the big pepper grinder with that cinnamon sugar blast and they go, say when. Pretty much. Keep going, bitch.

Keep going. Keep going. Keep going.

So you said you had this as a child in elementary school. So you're, you're this many years old and your mom is like, I'm gonna buy you a 1,200-calorie caffeine bomb once a, once a week.

I was very well behaved and did well in school, you know? So I did, I did get, I did get sugar.

Sure. You bring home all A's, we're gonna, we're gonna let you kill yourself with chocolate and caffeine.

Yeah.

But I kind of OD'd and so now I am into, I now I am into like the healthy, you know?

Okay.

So you, the healthy fake dessert, which hence the Glow Nut. Now I'm into the fake stuff.

Okay. I, I understand that. I had a, I had, my wife brought home a bag of what seemed to be chocolate-covered Cheerios last night from Happier Grocer and I made fun of them because they were, They were so stupid, like health food store dessert. And then she told me they cost $18. And then I tasted them and unfortunately kind of good.

You know what I mean? And that's— Absolutely worth every penny.

A Glo Nut is not going to touch a Cinnabon.

Yeah.

You know, it's not going to touch, but it's not bad. It's not bad.

It's incredible. It's why I wake up in the morning. And I have to tell you, is Happier Grocer the one that's on Orchard?

Canal.

Okay.

Canal.

Maybe there's one on Orchard. I don't know.

Maybe you've been there before. I'm sure.

I imagine that they would be one of the few places in New York that would carry Glow Nuts.

Oh, they're— oh, they're Glow Nutty for sure.

Yeah.

Okay. Okay.

Sure. No question. I haven't checked, but I can say with certainty.

Okay, well, go get them because they're out of business anyway. It's too— it's too sad. We shouldn't really do that.

So Glow Nuts is going out of business.

It is out of business.

I heard. I heard this. But is it voluntary or is it— I think it's because business is so bad.

Great question. I think to break into the specialty food market—

a lot of CPG listeners right now—

with big grocery is really, is really challenging. So I think it was a little bit of like the market.

So many SKUs right now, the SKU wars.

It's hard.

Why don't you have a little business? I mean, I know you have this TV thing, but what about some other— where are you putting this money besides ceramics? Like, you got to open something or start something.

You're so, you're so right. I did think, can I save Clonuts? And then I was like, what am I doing? Yeah, I take it into specialty health.

I don't think you need to buy a distressed asset. I think you could start from scratch. I think that's where you're at. I think you could take one of your interests and really package it up and sell it to the masses. Yeah.

Never use your own money for that. You'd have to wrangle up some investors.

Your agents at William Morris or CAA do something called packaging.

That's right.

Capital's super cheap right now, so I think it's a good time to move.

They could put you together with a creator who could kind of make this happen for you.

So true. It's so true. I'm going to get on that now that I have time. Now that Hacks is done, I can start thinking about—

Have you seen— because I'm sure you've seen Glenn Powell's sauce.

Collection.

Have you seen that or no?

I haven't. Can you believe I haven't? I've been under a rock.

Glenn's making ketchup, barbecue sauce, mustards, etc.

Okay, he's doing the Paul Newman thing.

Okay, he's doing the Paul Newman thing.

It's for like guys like us though, you know what I mean?

Very leading man.

It's more of a conceal and carry Paul Newman, you know what I mean? But it's in, in spirit, yes, he is doing a Paul Newman.

Paul Newman's Coachella. This is more of a stagecoach.

Yeah, this is a stagecoach business. Yeah, this is stagecoach, right?

Okay. I mean, honestly, it'll do really well, I'm sure. And I bet it's not— isn't— wasn't Newman's for partially for charity or something.

All, all for charity.

We've told this story on the pod before, but the famous thing is that he made salad dressings in his bathtub and gave them out for Christmas presents to his neighbors. And one of his neighbors was Martha Stewart, and she told him that he should do it, turn into a business. And then it did. He did.

And then he said, can I just get paid in pussy? And they're like, yeah, sure, yeah, whatever you want, bro.

All paths return to Martha Stewart. I mean, that woman, her self-made billionaire I was with her.

I was with her over the week. I was with her over the weekend at this hotel opening in Italy.

Oh, and okay, that's the dream.

You didn't, you didn't say Martha was there, Chris.

Martha was there. She was only there for half the time, but Martha was there. And she really, really travels with like a 3 executive gays, and it's a nice, it's a nice mix, you know, like one guy's here for this, one guy's here for, you know, they're all in the pictures together, but she's never alone. And I think that's why she's got so much spunk, right? She's still so with it is because she's going back and forth with these queens 24 hours a day.

Wow. And you've met her before. I know that.

I met her a couple of times. Yeah, she's around.

I've heard that.

She's around. She was in Milan for Salone, Jason, because she was doing something with Kohler, the sink brand.

Of course. Love the good people at Kohler.

Excellent.

Make a good sink.

I'm glad you're calling.

She's the face of Kohler. One of the faces of Kohler.

I'm sure you have several Kohlers in your home. Many faces. Yeah, they build a nice little faucet. So, so much like Deborah Vance on your TV show Hacks, surrounded by a gaggle of executive gays. And you're not really an iconic diva if you don't have that, right? Because like, that's so true. You can't imagine Mariah Carey walking down the street dolo, you know, walking the dog. She's got to have—

Oh, she's got 3 at least, right? Yeah. Team of people. I actually— this sounds braggy, but I was at a party once that she came to at someone's home.

Mariah Carey.

Thank you for making that.

This wasn't at the Eagle. It wasn't at the Eagle, sweetie. This was at a private residence. It was at someone's home.

This is, this is pretty good. And she came in with, I, I think her security detail, who moved furniture to create a VIP area for her to sit at. I'm not kidding, in the living room. Moved like a loveseat, moved a chair, and then there was like a little area.

Dude, that is good stuff right there.

I've never told that story, but that's true.

The gone effect.

The question is, the real question is, a Madonna, a Mariah Carey, a Deborah Vance, could we get this? Can we find the buff scary security guards that are also gay? So therefore you have— it's a one-stop, you know what I mean?

That's actually a great character. That should have been in Hacks.

That is an amazing character.

We need muscle, but we still can't— we can't afford to have a sis on the team.

Like a Navy SEAL that's out of the closet now. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, it's a— there's something really good.

That's a Navy otter, Chris. It's a Navy otter is what we call those.

There's something there. There's something there.

SEAL Team Slay.

I'm so pissed that we have no more seasons. This sucks. That is so good. Yeah.

Season 6 and a half has just been written right here, guys.

I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you guys for going out when the getting's good. I feel like that's what— I feel like this is becoming a little bit of a trend in Hollywood where people know we ain't in that— we ain't in— it ain't must-see TV anymore. You ain't got 12 of these in you, right? You got 5 and you gotta go.

Yeah, yeah, leave them wanting more, I think, is the— is the thing. But you know, there are shows that have been on for many, many, many, many years, and good for them.

Yeah, I love Shelton as much as you do, but I'm just saying, you know, like, like It's, you know, it's not— I feel like it's a— it feels very ABC. It feels very network television.

When Frasier was on every week, it was a different time. You know, we demanded much less of our weekly television programming.

You know, that's right. Even though fantastic program, great program, really smart.

I mean, of course, of course, one of the greats. But, you know, that was in a— that was in a pre-classic or trash, pre-my-attention-span-is-destroyed. Why am I going to watch this when I have, you know, hot guys on my Instagram or girls?

That's right. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, to look at, it's hard.

It's hard to compete now.

Have you really been whoring yourself out?

That's why we stopped.

We were like, oh shit, so hard to compete, which is why we quit our jobs.

Yeah, well, I don't think— look, I don't think of Hacks as something that's competing with OnlyFans creators necessarily, but I see where you're coming from.

Yes. No, no, no, it's not an A/B. I think also for ours, we were like, you know, unlike Lanik Prasian, we didn't want to do something that was so much a sitcom where the characters didn't change and you could just do it a million times. We really pitched like the full arc. And so we were like, you know what, she is going to get there. And after that, it would have to become a sitcom. Like it would become a different show.

So you're saying when you went in first time, you're like, here's the fucking plan. Like, this is the whole thing.

We pitched the last episode in, in the, in every pitch except for HBO Max, because they, again, this sounds very self-aggrandizing, but they stopped us. They were like, we get it. We'd like to make it before we told them the end.

Must be nice. You know what? Stop right there. Stop right there.

It was very nice. It was very nice.

So basically you're getting a, you got a blowjob and you're like, okay, and then I'm going to reciprocate. And they're like, no, no, no, sucking your dick was good enough. That's all I needed. It's easy for something like that to go to your head. Hey, we're done here.

Send over the paperwork, you know, to his or her own.

If it gets you off, great.

Okay. Well, was that beneficial in terms of like the, like, was the finale, the last episode going to be something that required, you know, a big lift budgetary-wise or, you know, cameo-wise or? Location-wise that maybe they signed up for?

Yes.

I mean, before knowing what it was, there was—

there was— we did shoot in France for some of it, so yes, there was that.

But you're like, oh, by the way, we have to rent out Madison Square Garden for the, uh, kind of, kind of.

Yeah.

Um, I don't want to spoil, but we did, we did rent out a pretty major venue.

For the record, I have not seen— you, you sent me the episodes, but I'm watching in real time every week.

Thank you.

You know, do it the right way.

I have to— I can't—

I, I didn't— solidarity, sister.

These fucking stupid screenings, they're too hard to deal with. I don't even— I honestly, I don't even care. I can't use it.

I get it. It's really— it is. I wish it were more user-friendly.

Music's the same way. I really think that there's something— Netflix does it where you just use Netflix.

That's really good.

And like, I think I— we've said this before on the show, Spotify or Apple Music should do this for music. It would be genius if you just— I don't know why no one has done this or tried to.

It feels so cool. It's like the— the— you go on Netflix and there's like, here's what the regular people see. It's kind of grayed out. And then you 'Because you have a dumb podcast, you get to watch this now. Isn't that cool?' That's amazing.

They should absolutely do that. Yeah, no, it's true of even like when we get screeners for Screen Actors Guild or DGA, it is like— now, now it's getting better. Now there are like, yeah, there are apps and we can just go on and do it. But it used to be, it's like, I'm not saying—

I'm saying that in with music, which is more what I'm attuned to, there are 3 or 4 different ones, right? And they're all fine, but they're not like— you have to download. It's just not part of your life, right? You know what I'm saying? That's the—

yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. You mean for advanced?

Yeah, for, for an advanced.

Yeah.

Like somebody sends you the record 3 months ahead and it's like, all right, well, let me use this shitty— it's like an email and you have to— oh, you know, it's just a lot.

I know.

I can't listen to it any place you would ever listen to music. You just have to sit. It's like if they instead of sending a screener, they send you like a small 19-inch TV and it has a built-in chair and you have to sit in it to watch all 9 episodes or whatever.

What a fun experience.

It's great. It's great.

Okay. Well, speaking of Las Vegas, I was just there recently and I like that you filmed that episode in, what's it called? Potato.

Oh, the Washing Potato at the Fontainebleau.

The Washing Potato, which I—

Great looking restaurant.

It was funny because Carolyn and I, my wife, we went there a few weeks ago to a restaurant opening, Cantina Contra Mar at the beautiful Fontainebleau.

Oh yes. I know.

You know it well, of course.

I only know because the Fontainebleau is my home away from home and I know what they're up to. And I'm on the emails.

We're both members of the Blue Crew.

Are you a Poodle Room member?

I am not a member, but I was able to visit the Poodle Room. There was a live concert by what's his name, Chris?

Gavin DeGraw.

Oh, yeah, of course.

Gavin DeGraw live in concert. He has a little jazzy, you know, him and some of his old dogs out there tickling the ivories.

Guys, sorry, for the uninitiated, the Poodle Room is a a members club at the Fontainebleau property in Las Vegas.

It's like a little slice of the San Vicente Bungalows in Vegas. You go up to the top of the elevator to the penthouse suite, they put a sticker over your phone, and it's like a speakeasy baller's lounge.

I like that, but everybody in there is ugly. Oh, is that because it's Vegas, or is that— is that different?

Is it— they're less attractive than the LA location of the San Vicente Bungalow. Sure.

Okay, but so Paul, you're, you're a member. You're— after spending so much of HBO's money staying in the suite, they've allowed you to kind of—

they have offered me They've granted me access. So I am a member. If you ever want to go, let me know. You're—

I honestly—

you can use my pin. You can get in.

Do you think you will ever go back to Las Vegas again as long as you live though, is the question.

That's a great question. I am going back in like 3 weeks. I'll be back there in 3 weeks.

But not for fun.

I'm going to have a blast. I mean, it's, it's for— it's Meg and I are presenting at the AMAs. So I'm going back for that.

But the American Music Awards.

The American Music Awards.

In Vegas. I would go to that.

Yeah.

Yeah. That sounds fun actually. Who's performing? Let me guess.

Do you have any guess?

Don't even know. I have no idea.

You don't even know.

I don't even know what category I'm performing yet. The things are still taking shape.

Sure, sure.

Of course. Of course. You know, the American Music Awards guys are there super last minute.

Okay. Well, you've spent a lot of time in Vegas over the last number of years, and there's a lot of, you know, the discourse around Vegas is like it's sort of in the shitter. Money's not coming in. Tourism's not coming in.

Tourism is down.

Have you thought about how you would fix Las Vegas, what you think Las Vegas might need? And are you Are you showing that in your episodes of Hacks?

You know, we are, we are. And we have, we've actually alluded to this. One thing that we're, one thing that happens this season actually is that they, they're trying to open a boutique hotel casino, you know, that's not like a huge conglomerate. That's not like the fare that you get.

Finally, a casino for guys like us.

That's exactly right. Um, so I do think that would be a great move, but then again, I'm not sure if I have my finger on the pulse because The Fontainebleau used to be a non-smoking casino, and that did not work. I loved it. I was like, this is great. It's, it smells great in here. You know, it's like, so, but people want to go and gamble and, you know, blast cigs.

No, actually, when I was there, get away with that. And it did more traffic, you know, I was smoking in the, in the casino at the Fontainebleau like a month ago. And I, I had to look around and see if it was allowed because it felt like it was too clean and non-smoky.

I know, but no, it is the only person is now welcome. It is now welcome.

I think, I think that making it show about Las Vegas in general is, is the Board of Tourism should be paying you for that. That, that's a, that's an advertisement in itself.

It's no Ocean's Twelve, but yeah, I mean, are they, are you a little juiced into the town?

Can you give me a, can you give me a Friday night, 8 o'clock at Carbone Riviera or what?

I bet you I could. I bet you I could. I will say I have some, my relationships are kind of deep now with the, with Bellagio and with Caesars and with the Fontainebleau. But I don't know, they— that's a hospitality town and they are all so welcoming and so nice.

I am like, they're pros.

Yeah, honestly, from day one they were so welcoming and nice. Every single person, the tourism board. I mean, they, they know how to entertain and welcome guests.

But you would, you would go home as soon as you could.

The last time we were there, we stayed 2 weeks and we just didn't leave.

You stayed for the— because most people, the actors will leave on the weekends because they're like, I have to go home to my family. I don't.

They didn't anymore. We did that season 1 and 2. We were like, we're going to do this quickly. We're going to go in and out. We grew to love it. And it's truly a home away from home. I'm not kidding. And this is not—

I could see that. I could see you having Stockholm syndrome.

We really stayed. It was great. And especially now that like, I don't know, there's so many good restaurants there. You can actually get great food. The thing that happens is your lips fall off. Like you become absolutely raisin. You absolutely, you shed hair. Your lips become cracked. Like, like human life isn't supposed to be there. It's the heat and the dryness. It's not meant for life.

The, the air conditioning is pumping so strongly because the climate outside is so punishing that even just 2 days there, you feel your body's chemistry changing.

And now did you, would you bring, would you bring the 911 from LA and kind of get outside the city on the weekends or were you just landlocked?

We were landlocked, very landlocked. We were stuck there. So it's like, And you know, like marathon runners, like their nipples bleed. It's like that happens after 2 days of being there. It's, it is crazy. It is really intense. But otherwise, you know, the entertainment, the food, the people, it was great.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah.

I'm sure you saw a lot of shows. You know what I mean? I'm sure you're really—

You know, I saw, uh, I saw Wizard of Oz of this year, which I gotta tell you was amazing. We had a blast, but I didn't see, I didn't do like Cirque, like the weird sex Cirque or whatever. We didn't go to, we didn't go to any of those shows.

You didn't go to Waterfucking by Cirque du Soleil?

No, we didn't go to waterfucking. We didn't do— I think our crew went to see, um, David Copperfield, I think.

Okay.

Yeah, that's a— that's— that feels like a classic kind of move, you know what I mean? If Cirque du Soleil sold out—

16 Islands, David Copperfield, one of the greats, right? Well, actually, speaking of magic, speaking of magic, I noticed that this— or this season, there's a— there's a little bit of a theme where you guys sort of of not the entire show, but the main character and the overall œuvre of the moment is you're taking a stance against magic and magicians.

We do.

And I know that that community could be a little fierce, you know, not so much, you know, like the BTS stan army, but like, has big magic come out of the smoke to get your ass?

Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, you're fine, you know, drink more water.

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly.

That's about it.

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Pricing valid May 14th through May 27th. US only. Exclusions apply. See homedepot.com/pricematch for details. Not yet. They haven't— they haven't disappeared us yet. No, I haven't been swallowed by big magic. But I will say we were at a We were at an event and there was the magician there. Uh, and we were like, oh fuck. Cause it was the weekend after the episode aired where we firmly come out against—

the block was still hot.

Uh-huh. So we were nervous. We were very, very nervous. Mm-hmm. You don't want to be around a mentalist who knows you don't care for magic, you know? And, and, and hey, mm-hmm, I think some magicians are actually magic and they are wizards or whatever, and some are not. So, wow.

You really— okay. Well, do you, so you're saying you personally don't have an anti magician stance, or speak on it, Paul.

We want you to clarify, if you could, on the record. If you could just clarify.

It feels like when you said some of them are actually kind of good, I didn't really believe you.

Okay, okay. So sometimes— okay, okay. Okay, I'm gonna go— I'm gonna go to the record and say— okay, sure. I, I, I was, uh, as Charlize said, I was talking out of my ass, guys. I don't know. I don't know. I, um, you know how it is. Sometimes you're like, whoa, how did they do that? And sometimes— I don't know— sometimes you're like, this is Absolutely not for me. I, I have a— I wish I had like a very hard line on magic, but I have a really hard line.

Okay, well, there's a, there's a scene, there's a scene on the, on the most recent episode where, where Hannah Einbinder, you know, is sort of saying something similar to that, like, you know, the poof and the—

like, she's like, it's cringe. She thinks tricks are very cringe. Yeah, she's like, did you or did your wife write that dialogue? That's a great question. I, I don't think either of us pitched that. I don't know where it came from. The writer's room. I don't know who pitched.

Classic, blame the writer's room. Blame the 8 people eating gummy worms all day.

Oh my God, I'm giving credit. I'm giving credit where it's due.

Me and my wife write the show, but I don't know who did it. It was— no, it must have been—

believe me, I, I— no, I would love to take credit for it. I'd be like, it was me, that was my idea and mine alone. But we have 7 writers, okay, plus Jen, Lucia, and myself.

Damn.

So A bunch of people, you know, I think there's this, I actually have the affliction where I usually think I pitched it, which is really a bad habit to be like, I think I pitched it.

If it was good, it was probably me.

Yeah.

Ladies.

Yeah. But, um, but no, I don't know where that one came from. It's also been, it's been, it's been a minute.

Like that was 2 years ago. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

You know?

Okay. When we, when we were introing you, let's, let's pivot to sports. When we were introing you, Chris mentioned you went to Duke. I heard that you used to be a swimmer as a youngster. Were you on the Were you a Blue Devil swimmer?

You know, I walked on for a week and I was like, no. It was, you know, it's D1, it was very intense. I was, I was captain of my swim team in high school. I was competitive, but I was not private or public.

Be honest with us.

Private.

Yeah. Okay.

But, but I went to public school through 5th grade. My mom's a public school teacher. Well, she's retired now, as are a bunch of my aunts and uncles. Like, I come from a public school family. But, um, when I was in 6th grade, I'm from a really rural part of New Jersey, and I went to a school that 2 kids in 6th, 2 kids in 7th, 4 kids in 8th grade, and we were all in one room. So my mom was like, either you're learning 8th grade material or they're learning 6th.

That sounds like weirdly Quaker or Scientologist or something. That doesn't sound very—

I know, but it wasn't. It wasn't. So anyway, I did. I did go to private school.

Technically it counts. Okay. What was your— what was your event?

100-meter butterfly.

Okay. So if we got in the— if we got in the pool right now, does it come right back to you?

You know, I think I could. Yes, I think I could beat you. Is that what you're asking?

I wasn't— I don't have a swimmer's build. I'm more athletic than that. So I don't know. I'm a little—

It comes back to a degree, but I certainly don't have the stamina I once had. I get tired really fast.

Who of us does?

Yeah, I feel you, brother. What's the— what's the— but what was it? I've always, you know, when you're a swimmer and I know this is a sport and it's taken seriously, but when you're an adolescent wearing a Speedo, I imagine there's some ribbing going on amongst the, the team, or, or was it free and clear because everybody's in the pool?

Unless you have a big cock, then it's okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's— that's a lot of drag. That's not good for your— that's not good for your event, you know?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Paul's like, no, all the, all the guys with big dicks were on water polo. We just kind of swam.

Me, I was 100-meter butterfly. Don't worry about me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, really cut through the water.

You know, the Speedo thing, it weirdly becomes a non-issue. It's like, I guess, being part nude is calling, you're like, well, this is normal.

No, totally. I just, I, I would always assume that, but then when you put the 12-year-old mind there, right, right, right, I feel like, do those two things compute? You know what I'm saying? That was always my—

I guess ironically, or, uh, pun intended, you're jumping into the deep end of locker room life as a, as a young child, literally.

And also, you know, when you're on the swim team and you're— if you are, I feel like if you are actually competitive, you're also shaving your body. It's crazy. It's kind of, it's kind of an—

it's like, because I know you famously have so much body hair, especially when you were younger.

I did have a lot of body like the repeated shavings actually made it much more tame. It's much— you know what I mean?

It actually— it worked. It's— they lie to you about that. It actually—

yeah, it's the opposite of what you think.

You still— you still pick up the blade every once in a while and give it once and just a little— see how it feels again?

You know, I don't, but I really should. I remember being a very weird sensation.

Yeah. How many years has it been since you've had a full, full tuck and roll?

A full shave? Like shave? Yeah.

Whole thing.

Competition— a competition-ready detail job.

You know, I think it was probably my senior year of high school, so it's been Oh wow, 7 years.

Yeah, I think you and I are exactly the same age. I think 43.

Yes.

Yeah, I think—

okay, I will confirm it.

Okay, well, I'm glad you're able to go on the record about something. Thank you for that.

Yep. Hey, you're right, I didn't— I, I really, I really chickened out about magic. I'm sorry.

It's okay, we don't have magicians. We hopefully— we don't have any magicians listening to this.

I hope you do. I hope you do.

They're coming for your ass.

We got a couple. Okay, let's get in, um, on the subject of some, some eating and some disordered eating. I always think about like you love, right? When you hear about swimmers, you know, Michael Phelps eats a whole large pepperoni every day. He's got 6% body fat because he's burning so many calories. When you were an 18-year-old hairless stud swimming through the water, what was your caloric intake? What were you eating? You know, what was going on?

I had a Krispy Kreme jelly donut like every morning. I was, you know, and I was having it with— when I was in high school, I was having it with like Raspberry mocha, you know what I mean? I was, I was really, again, I was like a sugar fanatic.

I was hoping you were going to say a tall glass of whole milk, you know, but I, I see that, that the sugar was more of a draw for you.

Sugar was the draw. Although I used to, you know, I used to eat Cream of Wheat. Do you guys know what that is?

Yeah, I used to, I used to enjoy some Cream of Wheat.

You really do have a dichotomy of like a really old guy. I know you have a lot of old guy traits.

I mean, he grew up in rural New Jersey. A lot of that, a lot of his parents' generation, you know, he was living that life.

I was.

How far from Manhattan are we talking?

Um, to get to Manhattan was probably like an hour 45 on the train or in a car. Okay, okay, in a car. I think what we would do is we would drive to, um, the Dover train station and take the Midtown Direct, which was like another hour and a half, and it was like 45 minutes to Dover. So it was like a 2-hour 10-minute commute if you were really commuting.

When your parents were taking you to the store, you know, at 15 to see if Louis C.K. was there.

Exactly.

Um, we ain't have trains where I was from, but my town had a livestock auction every Tuesday.

That's fun. Something for everybody to get together.

Like, it really was— it is a, it is a legit rural place. Even though if you're in New Jersey, you're like, oh, it doesn't— it's not rural.

But I think of beaches and I think of Newark. Like, I don't think— you're right, rural is the last thing that comes to mind. But obviously it makes sense.

Yeah, like Northwestern New Jersey, where I'm from, is where like New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania met. My wife is always saying, just say upstate New York because people understand that's like Catskills. That's like the Appalachian Trail. They get that.

That would be a lie. So she's a liar too. I see what you're saying.

She's like, rewrite your history.

I hear upstate, I think Stissing House, you know, I don't, I don't think New Jersey.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, it is, it's more romantic, I would say, to say Catskills.

Yeah. Very much. Very much. Yeah. But I was near, I was like, I was closer to the Poconos than I was to Manhattan.

You know, closer to Manhattan.

Like they, they always ask you like, what's your mall? Like if you're from New Jersey. The nearest mall was 50 minutes away, but what was closer was Woodbury Commons Premium Outlet Center.

Of course.

Chris, maybe you're familiar.

I'm very.

Okay. So that was like half hour from my parents.

Oh, okay. So you did, so you were, you were wearing designer your whole life then?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I was getting Gucci bell bottoms for like $60.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's cheap.

It's cheap.

And I would wear them in high school and I would wear them. I like that.

I like that you sound like you grew up in the '60s, that you grew up in the '60s.

Well, it was Tom Ford era. So it was, you know, there was like, there were There was some flair. There was some flair.

I was buying Tom Ford Gucci off the rack at the time.

I see what you're trying to do there. I see what you did.

Did you keep all of those archival pieces? Those archival outlet pieces?

You know, I do have a, I do have a couple. I still have a, this is crazy that I had this in high school, but again, because I lived by the outlet and because you could go on Christmas Eve, things were like 90% off.

Oh, they're giving it away. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool.

Throwing it out. They were about to send it to like the island or whatever, or burn it or whatever they do. So I do have a, I do have a, um, still very oversized, never fit me. I don't know why I got it because it was 90% off, but I have a leather blazer that was like a Tom Ford Gucci era leather blazer. And I have a purple sweatshirt that has a gigantic Gucci written across the chest. I still have those and I still wear them.

One of those is more wearable than the other, I would say, but hard to tailor leather, famously hard to alter.

Very hard to alter. Yes.

You know, so I was with an actor yesterday who will go unnamed.

Okay.

We were like, oh, do you— we were shooting him for something. We're like, oh, do you like these clothes? Because it's all this brand new design, you know what I mean? And he was like, I don't— this is my job. Like, you guys do whatever you want. Like, I don't think about this at all. Like, I am merely here. I am the vehicle, but didn't have it. You are the gas.

Had no opinion.

No, didn't have any. I mean, he would have an opinion on like, oh, this doesn't actually fit, but otherwise stylistically.

Wow.

He was just like, oh, this is— it was unbelievable. He was like, oh, this is my job. I'm just down for whatever.

So this is a person who— I'll say it in bleep, but so he knows, is that okay?

Yeah, yeah, sure.

Okay, okay. It's now— it's, it's coming into focus. Sure. Okay.

It's an act. But I guess my point is, this is an actor who's always sort of seen as good-looking. Like, he never looks goofy or bad. So for somebody who's willy-nilly You guys do whatever the hell you want. I don't even think about fashion. He always looks pretty sharp.

Yeah, I am actually surprised in that way. He does.

You know, he wears clothes well because it's so easy for actors to look awful when they just let their stylist.

It felt free. I was like, damn, this is, this is like a— this is the level above where you're just like, bro, I don't know.

I'm, I'm your— I am your doll. Dress me.

Yeah. But you do you because you now you're going to all these award shows, you're winning all these Emmys and shit. You have an opinion, I assume.

I do. I have opinions. Yeah, I'm a little exacting.

No, P-Dub is a fashion killer.

I do trust the people I work with though, you know. My stylist is very good, and so I'm— I am open to things that normally I wouldn't pick off the rack for myself, you know.

Who's this? Who's your stylist?

Rose Ford.

Okay, and, and so you go into the room and you're like, all right, there's 10 things, I like these 3, and you're good to go? Yeah, she's not—

no, no, no, she's often— well, usually what usually happens is it's down to 2. We're very split on 2.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then usually like the day of, it's like what feels good that day, and that's what we end up doing.

But you got to break these—

he's very exacting in a way that I really like, and I'm like, I— because I trust her, it's very nice. And I've worked with other great stylists, but I do appreciate her vision, you know.

But do you like wearing a suit in general? Like, are you comfortable in a suit?

Yeah, I actually do. Yeah, I don't mind.

I think that's— I think that's a big differentiator. I think there's some people that really hate it.

Yeah.

And some people that don't mind.

I love I love it.

It's the easiest way to dress, especially since we all have swimmers—

well, you and I have swimmers' builds. It's a lot, you know, it's easier for that. Chris, not so much. He's more athletic, of course. But I was like, I love the ease of a suit. You will— you throw it on, doesn't matter what's under it, really. You tuck in your shirt and you don't wear a dumb pair of shoes and you're good anywhere. It's very comfortable, easy, blah, blah, blah. But you have to do a lot of, you know, you'll do one award show, you'll do whatever, 5 a year. You put on the suit, you put on the tux. I think every time you have to do the after episode fake video podcast thing where you wear your like casual top and, and pants. Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and you have to have a different look for each episode after recap.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that, that feels like the real challenge.

Yeah.

Versus like what color suit.

That is more of a challenge. I will say more like casual dressing is in some ways harder. Yeah. Although I, I don't know. I think if you're gonna, if you're trying to like actually pull a serve, I think it is harder for men with suits cuz they're a little bit like my, you know, my wife is always like, it's so much easier. You just put on a suit. But I'm Yeah, but if you want to actually—

it's true, you don't want to serve. That's the issue. Men shouldn't be serving. Straight men serving isn't for us. We've got— okay, president, you know what I mean? We can be president. Women can't. We can't serve.

Chris, you're, you're too afraid to serve. That's the issue.

I'm not afraid to serve. I think when it—

no, I think specifically when it comes to feeling very draft dodger— sorry.

Yeah, I think you can serve. I think anyone can.

When it comes to suits, I think that men experimenting with suits have led us down some dark, dark Connor Story ass pathways.

Okay, okay, okay. I'm not gonna disagree with that.

I think you're like a see-through shirt, a no shirt underneath. Like, I don't care if you're Michael B.

Jordan, an Adrian Brody brooch that's, you know, about the size of a pie tin.

It's just— I just, I just think that, like, I get you don't want to be boring, especially if you're— yeah, A-list actor, you know. I totally understand that. But I just think that the tuxedo specifically is a tough thing to add to. I hear in a way that is, is good. And I am like, a cummerbund is the best you can do.

I'm done. See, that's it.

Yeah, cummerbund's great, but that—

but I think that does it, you know? You do something like that.

I agree.

A little, you know, you're a little off-center. I think that's good because I agree, I'm more of a classic tailoring kind of guy. Not, not into the no shirt, not into the no shirt, the, the pie tin pan.

The no shirt thing, I think we've— I think it may be— I think we may be past it. It was a, it was a tyranny of at least a year, I would say maybe two.

Yeah.

And don't even get me started on the Grammy Awards. People show in a— well, they'll do whatever. They're no pants. Oh, I know. I can't wait for the AMAs.

It's going insane.

AMA. Well, you know, Meg's gonna wear something fucked up, so you gotta—

I know, I know what she's wearing.

Actually, the AMAs are my Met Gala.

You're about to get mogged by Meg. I know, fucking—

I'm gonna get mogged by Meg. It's really hard. She looks good at everything. She looks good in everything.

She's having fun with it, and that is a lost art. Yeah, that is, that is really—

yes, that's— that is so true. She is having fun. And we've done some things together, and it is so fun to have a— actually have a bit— not to make— you know, you shouldn't always play the fool. But I do think when you have a bit at one of those things, it's so much more fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's the AMAs. It's like, yeah, I don't— I'm not a musician, who gives a fuck? I'm just here to have fun. Like, I'll present my work.

Do you guys have— do you guys— are you workshopping your AMA fashion?

We do have a thought for the— for the—

really?

Yes, we do.

So how does this go down?

Does this—

is this something that maybe one of you leads and the other is like, oh, what if we added this and that? Or, you know, whatever. How does it go down?

Yeah, I think we try not to like chase the dragon. It's like it has to come to us. The muse has to come to us. But one of us is like, we could do this. I mean, we did, you know, we did the Chrome Hearts orange thing and, uh, that was—

I forgot about that.

My, my—

how did I forget about that? That was so—

you didn't get enough recognition for that.

That was so stupid.

Really insane. It was insane, but it was the most fun we've ever had. It was the most fun we ever had. And like, truly, other people at the show were like, can we get a picture? It was, you know what I mean? I'm like, other actors wanting a picture with it. We were like, sure, you know, it was very—

how did that go down construction-wise? How much lead time did we need?

So this is what was crazy. So my sister-in-law Genevieve was like, you need to do like Marty Supreme press tour stuff. And so I was like, Meg, we should do this orange outfit. Um, so shout out to Genevieve for pitching that. This was like over like the— it was like around Christmas time. Meg was like, we're doing it for— I was like, maybe we do this for our premiere in the spring. And she was like, no, it has to be now. It must be now. We're doing it for Critics' Choice, which was in 7 days. Oh, she was like, we're doing it in 7 days. And I was like, Meg, and her stylist, um, Kat, pulled it together, found somebody, um, found this woman Erica to make the dress and the suit and did it in like 7 days. I think didn't stop for 7 days.

It really works though. It was really funny.

It was fun.

We—

it was— it made the night.

Did Timothy get in touch?

His publicist did come over to us and said, "Timmy's late, but I want to show you this." And she showed us her phone where she had texted a picture, and he wrote, "Incredible." Yeah. And I was like, "Oh, great. So he's not mad?" She's like, "No, he loves it.

This is great." Yeah, that's the whole reason. I mean, he, you know, that only helps his case, really.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said— and then we did meet him at the Actor Awards, and he was like— it was actually very funny. He was like, "Let's get a picture." And we got a picture. And he was like, "Okay, we got it." It was very— it was a very quick moment, but we got a picture. And Meg has gone on the record. She's been like, he asked us.

He asked you. He got ahead of it.

Maybe to be kind. Maybe because—

Let's differentiate. I mean, that is a big differentiator. It really is. He asked you, not the other way around. That does— that counts for something.

I'm going to insult myself before you guys have the chance to. I'm going to ask for a selfie before all you guys ask me for a selfie.

Have you asked?

I would never, actually. I would never.

Have you ever asked anyone for a picture?

I did get a picture with Carol Burnett when she guest starred on the show. I did want a picture with Carol Burnett.

That's pretty good. But no, normally I just— I—

even if I really want it, there's something— yeah, some level of—

I'll only do it if— who did I do it with, Jason, at that— at that— at the Marty Supreme after party? The guy from Shark Tank. Oh, oh, Mark Cuban. I had to flick up with Cuban.

But also, I waited all night, famously, with, uh, President Bill Clinton.

Oh, President Bill Clinton. We saw Bill— Jason, I saw Bill Clinton at a restaurant. This is like—

this was like 2015 or something, at ABCV.

At ABCV. And I just leapt into action because Jason's really tall, so he got he had the angle ready to rock. And the way the picture's positioned and we're shaking hands, it looks like we are running for office together.

That is perfect. We need to frame it.

And then only 24 hours later, the Epstein stuff did come out. So it wasn't— the timing wasn't great for me personally.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I noticed there's a change in the comments section before and after.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's a— but I think you're right. It's tough to— it's tough to— I don't know. Like, the Mark Cuban thing was funny and he thought it was funny because he's like, why is this like, guy who the fuck is like, you know what I mean? Like he doesn't expect— I think he didn't expect a person that looked like me to want a picture with him, I guess is what I'm saying.

Sure, sure, sure.

You know, which is— that's fun.

It's usually virgins who ask for a selfie. So it's exactly a cool guy.

No, but my polo shirt, it's— no, you can like spray ketchup on it, washes right off. I'm just looking for an investment.

Paul, we both kind of devote this podcast and our lives to Twitter. And I feel like you're still on Twitter, aren't you?

I am. I dip in and out. I go on and I'm like, you know, I will post something or repost something, but I'm not on it all the time.

Okay.

I gotta admit.

Are you— but when you're working, do you like lock in, get the brick out, and you don't look at your phone type shit?

Lucia bricks. She bricks and she, she bricks hard. So she is off. I don't do that.

I look and in fact, when I'm like, I'm able to do it without the brick, but you know, I guess that's cute for her.

If you need it, I guess that's fine.

People need different things.

Things. Yeah, she does need it. I have an incredible amount of willpower. Um, but no, I will, I will like open it and, and just scroll literally for no reason between takes sometimes, just to— I think it's just like a stress-relieving thing.

Yeah, but, um, it's like a little cigarette for your eyes.

Yeah, I'm probably the least online person of anybody that makes the show.

That, that is—

I know that's bad probably for what we're doing here, but it's true.

No, well, they're— all of your writers are online, so you don't have to be.

They're very online. Lucia is very online. very online.

If I had to work with Joe Mandy every day, I'd be fucking— yeah, I'd be doing something.

I mean, incredibly online.

Yeah, he makes memes like a teenager. Like, he's doing it in seconds.

He's doing it into— he's making a meme. We'll have a joke in the room, we'll continue to go, and he'll have the meme up within, within 30 seconds.

You guys keep, you guys keep going. Did you, did you get my Sweetgreen? I just gotta hold on one second, just gotta get this meme.

Crazy. It's crazy.

That's a sketch. That's a skill in itself though. But I think there's a— I have a hard time with it. Jason has less of a hard time with it, but I think when you're in a group like that where it's so— you're sort of together for these certain periods of time, it's really easy to pick up on the patterns of who's doing what.

100%. Yeah. And he is— he— because we do most of it over Zoom. We're in person like once a week and then we're over Zoom. So he's doing— his background is constantly a clip art of whatever the joke is that we've just— you know what I mean? And it's changing all day long. I'm like, in some ways I'm like, brother, Like, are you good, bro? Like graphic designer, you're a graphic designer, but he's also brilliantly funny.

So I guess you're like, I don't think this, maybe this industry's not for you. Have you ever thought about graphic design?

If you put even half the amount of work you put into your graphic designs, you would be—

have you seen his hats? Have you seen the embroidery hats that he does? Yes. Which, yeah. Which, and also now it's become a thing. I've seen it. I have also seen that online that people are doing it more and more. And I'm like, I think he started that.

I don't know. He started that whole thing during COVID and now I see it a lot.

Yeah.

It's a real Etsy thing to do. Yeah.

Yeah.

Very Etsy thing to do.

My mom's probably gonna make me one for my birthday this year, you know what I mean?

100%. Good. Need the original if she does. That's a great gift.

It is a great gift. It's very personal.

Oh, it's Maya Rudolph who I saw. I saw Maya Rudolph wearing one on some late night show, and I'm like, who made that? And Maya knows Joe. She was on The Good Place, which she wrote on.

Um, but anyway, I'm sure, I'm sure somebody knows somebody at a wagon wheel or something, you know, hooked it all up.

What are you, what are you gonna— so what are you gonna do now, big Great question. Because HBO owns you, right?

We are. We are on a deal there.

I'm sorry, I don't like to use industry terms, but you're in an overall with HBO.

Yes, HBO owns us. We're developing something for them. And it's just development. It's not like a greenlit show, but we're still early days. Still early days. I think what we'd like to do next is a limited, as much as that I think is not okay.

Lazy ass.

All right.

Limited.

Okay. Exactly. We're trying to be lazy.

So one for you, one for you. Got it.

Okay, exactly.

Yeah, they love that over there.

Just to, you know, launching a new show would be, um, quite an undertaking. We're a little burned out. We're tired. The pace was really insane.

And how, how old is your— how old is your guy's kid now?

He's 4. He turned 4 in March.

Yeah, so this intense times right now. It is most important job of, of the world.

Dad show running. Oh, Dad, right?

Jason, don't act like these people— don't act like they don't have a staff, bro.

They ain't bringing it.

They ain't bringing that little shit to Vegas. They got people for He does come to Vegas.

He does come to Vegas and he loves Vegas. And the last time he was there, he went to a restaurant and this person walked over and said, you're very well behaved, and handed him a $100 bill. Vegas is absolutely nuts. And it's, it's amazing. The thing is that he really wanted to do like slot machines because it looks like it's games.

Yeah.

And we had to be like, nope. He sat at one of the slot machines and they were like, it's a $2,000 fine if he doesn't get off that right now. Like, they are so serious about it. So it was like, this is a playground for adults, which is very hard for a kid to compute. Yeah.

Because it does look like a kid— it looks like a funhouse. Yes.

And I've heard you guys talk about the arcade drop-off thing that they used to have. They don't really have that. Yeah, they don't really have—

I mean, that's, that's one way to circle the square to, to help save Vegas again, is give it— create a place to dump all these fucking kids. Obviously, 4 years old, you're not going to leave them stranded in an awesome arcade.

No.

Uh, you know, some when they're 13, 14, sure.

Well, how much— well, he's sports gambling at least on his phone though, right?

That's the thing. Yeah, his phone, he has— he does have, um, Um, he does have a lot of debt built up. Yeah, it's quite bad.

He wants iPad time. That means FanDuel.

He's not looking great.

No, it's actually Dwarf Kings. It's the—

yeah, it's based on color. He's choosing, you know, teams based on color, their uniform. I don't know, I love blue.

Yeah, this is a very, um, it's not good.

Dwarf Kings.

This is, this is very Idiocracy is a Demo— uh, this is a documentary Like, how long until they have, you know, sports betting for kids? You know what I mean?

That's right. That's right.

Not long, actually.

He might do well. He might do well. He's very lucky.

Well, okay. Well, all right. Well, do you— are you into like optioning books and shit, or do you want it to come all from the brain?

You know, we— it's so funny. The thing that we're working on is from a book, but we're not— we're very, very rarely interested in that. We do like it to be like generated from us.

But also, you guys come from an improv background, right?

Right? We do. Yeah. We met it.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I'm sorry. Your CV. I know. I apologize too.

I'll pray for you.

I know. It's like, it's really rough.

So you need to be the spark for the flame.

Kind of.

No, that's fine.

It feels easier.

You know, makes the deal memo less messy.

Right?

I think it, I think it does. I was like, does it? Yeah.

What's it like working with your wife though? Cause that sounds hard.

Oh, hell on earth. It's absolutely hard.

No offense to my wife, but I ain't trying to do all that.

No, I know. Well, you know, in this business we, we've certainly not worked together on things. And she or I have been apart for a long time, and that I think is harder. I think that's harder.

It's hard. Yeah.

You know, when you're in—

I didn't think about that part.

Yeah. When you're in Vancouver for a long time and you're not seeing your partner, it's kind of hard, especially if they're into Asian chicks.

You got to be careful up there in Vancouver. Oh, something to think about.

Okay, good.

Especially if you both have the same job and one person got the job and the other person didn't.

That's rough. When you're competing with your partner for the same role, it's really hard.

You should go audition for this, you know, this music video, and, oh, I'm, I'm just gonna stay in the Hey, you kid, come in here.

Oh, wouldn't that be hell?

I have two male friends who that happened to, where their girlfriend was a model and they went with them to like the casting.

Yeah.

And they were like, yeah, you're great. Who is that? Yeah, they had full— they had full careers and the girl did not. This is that— it's so— he's like a hot skater sitting in the lobby, like a board. Yeah, it's perfect.

Those people are always amazing. I, I find people Like the best, most natural actors, you know, that's how you get a Matthew McConaughey, right? Yes.

I don't know, man. I just showed up, man.

That's right. Exactly. Oops.

Yeah. I didn't think about the, I didn't think I always forget that these things are so all-encompassing that you just like, yeah, you're gone.

It does consume your life. So it is nice in that way. It's like you're, you're getting to be with your partner, but there's so many challenges, but we have, we figured out pretty early on the way to make it work for us the way that we're like, sure, let's just do positive reinforcement and make this pleasant. Doesn't, again, doesn't mean that we don't have moments that are hard, but we, yeah. No, but I guess I, we also have 3, we have, we're, we're doing, we do with our best friend. So there's a tiebreaker.

So it's kind of, oh, I bet, I bet they're, they're so lucky. That sounds awesome. Yeah.

Well, but guess what? Sometimes I'm the tiebreaker cuz they're, you know what I mean? Like it depends.

Like, yeah.

The cuck chair rotates.

Mm-hmm.

It's a musical cuck chair.

It's absolutely right. Yes. It's musical cuck chair.

That makes it a lot more fun. I guess.

Yeah.

I guess that the, but I guess the question really is that, are you able to shut it off when you're at home? You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I didn't think so.

We can't shut it off.

No, I didn't think so.

I mean, that seems unrealistic in some ways, you know, I, I, I don't know. I don't mind that, you know?

Yeah.

Cause in some ways it's like your homework's never done. You're always doing homework and yet you can do it in a casual way. Like you're falling asleep. You're like, this is a good idea for the, you know what I mean? It's like, it becomes a little bit, it's a little bit less like intense 9 to 5 feeling.

Yeah.

Um, and I don't know, we like, we like talking about something we've watched or something we've read. We, we like doing that stuff and it does feel like it's part of the work.

And how do you guys go, how do you guys fall asleep at night?

We usually scroll for a little bit.

Who, who rolls the blunt? You or her?

Uh, her. She's rolling the blunt. She's rolling the blunt. Um, yeah, she's rolling the blunt. And then, uh, she's usually like, okay, it's time to turn off the light. That's how it goes. Even though I'm always like, we have to get to bed early. I want a guillotine above my bed so that at a certain hour that like this thing goes and we have to be flat. We have to be down and sleeping, but Oh, that's a good idea. I really want that because it's inevitable that I'll be so fatigued the next day and I'll be like, I'm so tired.

And then she's like, so what time were you hitting the hay then? If we're trying to go, what's early to you?

Like, by 11, that'd be great. But it's, but it's very 11, bro.

That's late. I'm talking 9 o'clock. Get on my level.

Oh, I wish, I wish my kid doesn't go to bed until 9 o'clock.

Well, that's bad parenting. He's 4 years old.

I know, I know, but he's never slept much. He just wants to be awake. He only sleeps 10 hours max.

That's really, he's got his daddy's sugar dependency.

Huh?

Gotta go fast.

I guess when he's got 5, he's got 5 parlays going at once. He can't, he can't shut his eyes.

The thing, it's adrenaline. It's adrenaline. You know how it is when you're a gambling junkie.

Mm-hmm.

I do know how that is. I do know how that is.

Yeah. You got a lot surging.

I know how that is.

Your body.

Oh goodness.

Poor kid. He's not gonna grow an inch. All that cortisol and adrenaline and stuff.

It's okay. He can swim. All right. Well, thank you so much for potting with us, Paul. Hope you had fun and congrats on the, I had a blast. The final season.

I am, I'm fans, you guys. I'm fans. I'm a fan. I'm a fan of yours. I'm a fan of yours, bro.

Lucia came up to us, I think at the Emmys or something and said something, but I haven't seen her since. So please give her—

Do you wanna know why this laptop was set up by Lucia? She is like, this has to— she, she wants it to sound good. She's gonna be listening. You know what I mean? Actually made me stressed out. I'm like, I'm getting stressed out. This is supposed to be fun. This is supposed to be fun. We're talking culture. We're having fun.

Well, maybe there's a little jealousy.

Yeah, there could be a little jeal— yeah. I don't want this to cause problems at home. You know what I mean? So we'll do, we'll do the best we can.

You guys are, you guys are having fun. Helping me. This is really good.

All right, good.

You're giving me street cred.

And thank you for Hacks. Honestly, it's great. It's one of the best things that's, that's happened on TV in a very long time.

So I'm very— thank you very much for watching it.

I'm glad you guys wrapped it up when the time was. You're smart.

Thank you. I appreciate that because so many people are like, why are you doing this? It's really nice to hear that. I appreciate that.

No, bro, you got to, you got to go.

You never want a seventh heaven out, right?

No. Molest? Molest? No.

Yeah, I do not want to molest at At all, just to be clear.

No, syndication's not worth it.

No molesting.

Uh, yeah.

Uh, alright, thanks Paul. Alright, thank you guys for coming.

We'll see you later, brother.

Have a good one.

Later. Later.